Problem moving C in C

[Miletus]

Hi,

First of all, thanks for a wonderful game!

Now, I'm having a problem with a Skirmish game. I've selected an Ikko Ikki army, and my Commander in Chief has been automatically allocated to a unit of raw peasants. When I try to move him to a different unit, every time I try I get a message telling me that I can't move him to the selected unit because it is an 'allied' unit. Very strange indeed. So I tried eventually to move him to another raw peasant unit - and I still get the same message! Is this a bug, or am I missing something about how this feature works?!?

Thanks for any light you can shed on this!

[rbodleyscott]

Now, I'm having a problem with a Skirmish game. I've selected an Ikko Ikki army, and my Commander in Chief has been automatically allocated to a unit of raw peasants. When I try to move him to a different unit, every time I try I get a message telling me that I can't move him to the selected unit because it is an 'allied' unit. Very strange indeed. So I tried eventually to move him to another raw peasant unit - and I still get the same message! Is this a bug, or am I missing something about how this feature works?!?

You can't move the C-in-C to a unit that belongs to an ally general. It looks like your C-in-C is something of a token figurehead

[Miletus]

You can't move the C-in-C to a unit that belongs to an ally general. It looks like your C-in-C is something of a token figurehead

Yes, I realise that... But why would the AI designate ALL the units in my army as 'ally' units in the first place? That doesn't make any sense, does it?

[rbodleyscott]

You can't move the C-in-C to a unit that belongs to an ally general. It looks like your C-in-C is something of a token figurehead

Yes, I realise that... But why would the AI designate ALL the units in my army as 'ally' units in the first place? That doesn't make any sense, does it?

Sense doesn't really come unto it. If the army consists entirely of troops loyal to ally-generals then the CinC only has one unit.

The autodeploy alogorithm has a random element. Sometimes this happens.

[jomni]

You have to remember that the Japanese armies are a reflection of the feudal social structure (mentioned in manual). A daimyo's clan (and army) is composed of several individual smaller families and their subjects, bonded by family ties and oaths of service and alliances. The relationship can be fluid and can change if the particular lord sees it fit. So in an army, a general commands his own personal troops (family and villagers). These guys won't follow any other general of the same level because they don't have any relation with them. That is why we chose to use Allied general mechanics.

There are many cases when certain generals would change sides and join the enemy. Or refuse to engage for one reason or another especially in the battle of Sekigahara.

Chinese and Korean chain of command is more standard with Sub-Generals.

[Miletus]

Hi Richard & Jomni,

I appreciate the clarifications, especially as regards the random nature of C-in-C placement.

However, I wonder if the randomization should include certain rational limits? I can't see that there is any situation where a C-in-C would lead a group of peasants - defined in-game as 'Mob/Raw/No Capabilities' - in an army where all the other units are 'Allied' units. Random that may be, but also IMHO totally unhistorical. Although the Ikko Ikki included peasants in their ranks, we're not talking about the Peasants' Revolt here - AFAIK there were no peasant generals leading their villagers in a mass rebellion, followed into the field by Ikko Ikki warriors...

I know this may sound like being picky for the sake of it, and I guess it is if the situation doesn't arise very often. But as I don't know what the parameters of the randomization algorithm are, it's hard for me to make a judgement on that one way or the other.

As I said above though - I love this game, so please take this as constructive questioning/feedback/criticism

[Miletus]

Well the more I've looked at this the more it looks like an issue with C-in-C transfers generally. Of course if you have a Honjin then the CC is located with that for the duration of the battle. But so far when I've tried moving the C-in-C from an allocated field unit to another unit in any army, I'm finding that they are all designated as "Allied Units", and he can't therefore move to them. So, either I'm doing something wrong - which is completely possible, and if so please put me right - or this is a bug. Either way please do respond when you have time. Thanks.

[rbodleyscott]

Well the more I've looked at this the more it looks like an issue with C-in-C transfers generally. Of course if you have a Honjin then the CC is located with that for the duration of the battle. But so far when I've tried moving the C-in-C from an allocated field unit to another unit in any army, I'm finding that they are all designated as "Allied Units", and he can't therefore move to them. So, either I'm doing something wrong - which is completely possible, and if so please put me right - or this is a bug.

It is not a bug.

A C-in-C can move to units of a Sub-General's command, but not those of an Ally-General's command. As all Japanese non-C-in-C generals are ally-generals you won't be able to move him to one of their units. (This is by design, for the reason Jomni explained above). However in Chinese and Korean armies, the junior generals are sub-generals and the C-in-C can move to their units.

See manual, section 10.3.

[Miletus]

OK Richard, you and Jomni clearly know what you're talking about so if the whole thing's intentional then fair enough, bizarre as it still appears to me (in my ignorance)...
But if that's the case then I'd suggest there maybe needs to be a tweak to the random algorithm for assignment of C-in-C to its unit, because the C-in-C has been assigned to a peasant unit three times in the Ikko Ikki armies I've fielded. To (somewhat cheekily) quote from the FoG Empires of the Dragon pdf, "The commander’s base should be depicted as skilled fighting monks" - i.e. not a rabble!

[rbodleyscott]

OK Richard, you and Jomni clearly know what you're talking about so if the whole thing's intentional then fair enough, bizarre as it still appears to me (in my ignorance)...
But if that's the case then I'd suggest there maybe needs to be a tweak to the random algorithm for assignment of C-in-C to its unit, because the C-in-C has been assigned to a peasant unit three times in the Ikko Ikki armies I've fielded. To (somewhat cheekily) quote from the FoG Empires of the Dragon pdf, "The commander’s base should be depicted as skilled fighting monks" - i.e. not a rabble!

You have a point.