Bridging Engineers on 'strait terrain'

[maguro]

I'm trying to make bridging engineers allow for other units to cross straits. I'm guessing this is somehow possible, so does anyone have any hints or maybe a link to a thread where it was discussed before?? So far I've managed to get them (the engineers) to cross straits but other units have not been able to use the bridging engineers to cross. Any help is much appreciated!
thanks,
-maguro

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Strait's aren't considered rivers. I think what you are trying to do is impossible.

- BNC

[maguro]

Actually I ended up getting it to work. Found an old thread where Thvn tried it out. Turns out I had to make a slight change in the terrain.pzdat file so the strait had 'river' characteristic/trait, plus the changes I had made previously in the movement.pzdat.

Another question, I'm trying to make upgradable families for similar units. Is it possible to add new series? I'm thinking under the 'series' tab but so far it isn't working

-maguro

[peterw]

Thank you for the tip for bridge unit over straits. I'll try your workaround too.

I defined a lot of own series in the equipment file. The cheap update is possible, if both units have the same "series" and are of the same "Class". You can find it in my mod "Italia Victor!" (see my signature).

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Another question, I'm trying to make upgradable families for similar units. Is it possible to add new series? I'm thinking under the 'series' tab but so far it isn't working

-maguro

As peterw said, it's pretty easy. Just make sure they're the same and you're good to go.

Also, this works even if your unit is a 'captured' one (ie If the unit is set as a diferent nation to its true owner). These can still be upgraded cheap.

For instance, a German Matilda I (series TankLt - user defined) can be upgraded to a Pz II cheap if the Pz II is also of 'TankLt', even if the Germans don't normally have Matildas in their purchase list

- BNC

[maguro]

Thanks you guys for the input. I must be counting tabs wrong or something. I'll play around with it some more later.

There might be a downside to altering the terrain.pzdat. In that file 'STRAIT' terrain type uses the 'strait' trait, so I expect switching it to 'river' trait will cause it lose something - probably the ability of ships to pass through. I haven't tested that yet though - will do tonight.

My main goal is to have 3 river types: minor rivers that freeze, major rivers that freeze, and major rivers that don't freeze. The two major rivers can be used depending on region/climate. However, the problem is if straits lose there unique characteristic to allow water travel to allow for being bridged, I would have to use a sea terrain for actual straits, which can't be bridged. So assuming my test gives the result I'm expecting, it will mean a trade off - bridge bridgable (actual strait terrain)or sea-going (sea terrain with land tyles) straits. At least I have my 3 bridgable river types though!

[maguro]

As was expected the Strait lost its trait as a ship waterway.

On the bright side, making upgrade families was easy, once I learned how to count!

[maguro]

Another update, in case anyone is interested.
Now I'm not really sure what's going on but the Strait is working as a water way for ships, and can be bridged and crossed. Not complaining but I haven't changed anything, It just works now.

[peterw]

At the weekend I made some tests (based on V1.24) and the result was:
With your trick to add river trait in terrain.pzdat the bridge units work now as bridges over straits.
But the naval units get a speed of one hex field.

If I change the strait speed of naval units to maximum (=1 in the movement file), everything works normal (bridge units and ships). But with the default speed (=2 in the movement file for strait), I don't get half speed as expected but speed =1 field.

May be I miss something, but it seems there is no complete solution. I just find it unrealistic, if the ships move with full seed in channels; I want to stay with the default speed.

[maguro]

At the weekend I made some tests (based on V1.24) and the result was:
With your trick to add river trait in terrain.pzdat the bridge units work now as bridges over straits.
But the naval units get a speed of one hex field.

peterw, I completely overlooked the possibility of giving ships a 'strait speed'. I'm assuming you altered the movement.pzdat file? I'll have to think about trying it out. Also, I don't know if it makes a difference but I am running V1.22. I would think it's the same but I don't know enough about updates.

May be I miss something, but it seems there is no complete solution. I just find it unrealistic, if the ships move with full seed in channels; I want to stay with the default speed.

I feel the same way about aircraft, especially since I am trying to make a campaign where one turn equals 2 days. Since the map is pretty big I need to make the ships move further or else they just take too long to arrive anywhere. I don't really want to play around with movement too much to the point where I start seriously altering the game, maybe just minor adjustments. If I understand you correctly, you want to make ships slower in straits. Did you try giving the the naval movement -100 or -50 for strait in the movement.pzdat? Maybe that will give you something more like what you're looking for. I've also gotten some unexpected results when using '2' in the movement file. For now my naval units are set up to move 'half speed' through straits compared to the 'open sea'.

I agree that ships should be slower in straits, but just also felt that they should be bridged by engineers also.I guess it depends on your goal. I wanted 3 types of rivers with one type that never freezes while keeping the straits for ships. It seems to have worked out.

[peterw]

At default ships (navals) have a 1 (=full speed e.g. 6 hexes) in Sea parameter in movement.pzdat.
And a 2 (=halve speed e.g. 3 hexes) in Strait parameter in movement.pzdat.
The default is OK for me except I try to add a mobile bridge over straits (like rivers).

A negative value means percentage from a unit's total movement:
-100 (100%) means all ships get a speed of one, -50 (%) results in a speed of two independent of the original speed. Then all ships would have the same speed; this is not what I intend.
Nevertheless a setting like -17 (%) may generate a quite useful result (not tested jet).

If you need a higher speed for ships, I recommend you change the ships in equipment.pzdat (movement parameter).

[maguro]

Yes, as you say, I have always found the equipment.pzdat to be the best form for modifying unit movement. Generally I don’t change the movement file unless I am adding new movement types but that isn’t really what we are trying to do here. It does seem like we each got two different results from making the same change to the terrain file. I never got the “speed of one hex field” for naval units that you talked about in the earlier post. The only thing I can think of is that I altered Strait movement a long time ago (something I just said I try not to do ) and it accounted for some change. I’ll have to compare it with my original back up file. Anyway, now I think I understand what you are aiming for with strait movement. If you try testing some (-) values, I’ll be curious to know what result you get.

[peterw]

If you don't get exactly the same result, then we can assume we made something different.

As base I used PzC V1.24.
In terrain.pzdat I added river for straits getting (in this way I understand your great idea):
IDS_TRN_STRAIT strait,river 100 0

If I don't change anything else the navals (ships except river boats) get a speed of one hex in straits; the rest is normal.
And the bridge units work as bridges on straits.

If I change additional in movement.pzdat for navals the strait speed to full speed everything works like programmed:
Strait 1 1 1

But I prefer staying with "halve" speed for the ships:
Strait 2 2 2

[maguro]

Actually to be fair, it was thvn's 'great idea' which I just came across searching the forums
Afterall, I think we do have the same results: default 2 2 2 strait in movement.pzdat with 'halved' movement. I think my original test was on a map that didn't actually have a strait