Ordonnance Burgundian - the last few points...

[Millsy]

Hi Guys,

I've got the figs to do all of the following plus some more bits and pieces. As it stands I've got another 39 points in 800 and I can't make my mind up what to do. Another BG of some sort? Improve or enlarge a couple of existing BGs? Some stakes for the longbow? FWIW, a few points over 800 is not an issue. Our group doesn't care about 100% accuracy.

1 x Inspired Commander [80]
2 x Troop Commanders [70]
1 x Allied English Troop Commander [25]

4 x Ordonnance Men-at-Arms - Knights, Heavily Armoured, Average, Drilled [84]
4 x Ordonnance Men-at-Arms - Knights, Heavily Armoured, Average, Drilled [84]
4 x Ordonnance Men-at-Arms - Knights, Heavily Armoured, Average, Drilled [84]
6 x Ordonnance Longbowmen - Medium Foot, Protected, Average, Drilled [54]
8 x Ordonnance Pikemen - Heavy Foot, Protected, Average, Drilled [48]
4 x Ordonnance Crossbowmen - Medium Foot, Protected, Average, Drilled [28]
6 x Ordonnance Handgunners- Light Foot, Uprotected, Average, Drilled [24]
4 x Italian Mounted Crossbowmen - Light Horse, Uprotected, Average, Drilled [28]
8 x Allied English Billmen - Heavy Foot, Armoured, Average, Drilled [80]
8 x Allied English Retinue Longbowmen - Medium Foot, Protected, Average, Drilled [72]

[SirGarnet]

Stakes . . . Longbows . . . always! Well, at least if you expect them to face the mounted enemies they would like most to shoot. They are your best shooters so 2 more couldn't hurt. That with stakes for the BG would be 18+12 = 30 pts.

Consider taking Handgunners in 2 BGs of 4 each. They don't hit very well, but having them just shooting at something inflicts a -1 CT modifier if a test is forced. That would be +8 points for 2 more HGs. So long as you take care to pair your small shooting BGs, it should be OK. You also get more screening units for your Knights.

Mike

[Millsy]

Unfortunately I can get a max of 6 stands of handgunners, hence the current BG. I was planning to pair them with the crossbows anyway. Are 6 stands not worth the difference over 4? I figured at 4 points each I might as well go for the largest available number seeing as the quality was lower. I also have the figs

Stakes are a definite consideration. I was just curious if there was something else I was also potentially missing that I should have...

[SirGarnet]

You took Pikes.

But if I were taking Burgundians I would drop 2 handgunners and take two mixed spear/longbow BGs (48 pts/BG) if only because it is an intriguing Burgundian innovation. Standing alone, it would shoot 3 dice while the LB alone would shoot 4.5 dice, but you could afford two BGs for a total of 96 points. That would make good company for crossbowmen and skirmishers and an obstacle to enemy mounted better than stakes, which have to be hammered into place. The Def Spears if steady also negate Lancer Impact and Swordsmen Melee POAs, very handy, plus you get the second rank of Longbows shooting anything charging in from the front. You lose the offensive power of the Pikes, but it is only one block of Pikes and the billmen are the only flank support you have for them, and that is an ally unit.

You probably want stakes for the English LB if they are going to stake out a position in bad terrain or otherwise take a fixed disposition. If the billmen are sticking close to their archers to protect them, you could trim them to 6 bases for needed points. However, I could imagine a formation including the mixed BGs, handgunners, crossbows, and the English that would put out a lot of firepower and have some defensive solidity. If this was a moving formation, the stakes would not see much use.

Mike

[Millsy]

Interesting idea. I'd have to buy and paint a couple more stands of bow, but I could then make the following at 803pts.

1 x Inspired Commander [80]
2 x Troop Commanders [70]
1 x Allied English Troop Commander [25]

4 x Ordonnance Men-at-Arms - Knights, Heavily Armoured, Average, Drilled [84]
4 x Ordonnance Men-at-Arms - Knights, Heavily Armoured, Average, Drilled [84]
4 x Ordonnance Men-at-Arms - Knights, Heavily Armoured, Average, Drilled [84]
6 x Mixed Defensive Spearmen/Longbowmen - Mixed ratings [48]
6 x Mixed Defensive Spearmen/Longbowmen - Mixed ratings [48]
6 x Mixed Defensive Spearmen/Longbowmen - Mixed ratings [48]
4 x Ordonnance Crossbowmen - Medium Foot, Protected, Average, Drilled [28]
6 x Ordonnance Handgunners- Light Foot, Uprotected, Average, Drilled [24]
4 x Italian Mounted Crossbowmen - Light Horse, Uprotected, Average, Drilled [28]
8 x Allied English Billmen - Heavy Foot, Armoured, Average, Drilled [80]
8 x Allied English Retinue Longbowmen - Medium Foot, Protected, Average, Drilled [72]

Or does the 6-20 bases of Ordonnance Longbow restriction not include the Mixed BGs?

[peterrjohnston]

Hi Guys,

I've got the figs to do all of the following plus some more bits and pieces. As it stands I've got another 39 points in 800 and I can't make my mind up what to do. Another BG of some sort? Improve or enlarge a couple of existing BGs? Some stakes for the longbow? FWIW, a few points over 800 is not an issue. Our group doesn't care about 100% accuracy.

1 x Inspired Commander [80]

Another 30 or 45 points spare... can't have an IC with Burgundian Ordonnance.

Rgds,
Peter

[SirGarnet]

Another 30 or 45 points spare... can't have an IC with Burgundian Ordonnance.

Rgds,
Peter

Amazing! The first army list I've seen that can't have an Inspired Commander (historically justified of course), but then I stopped looking at the top of the table when flipping through. Are there other armies that can't have an IC?

Mike


P.S. The Mixed BG line says replacing the longbowmen, so it counts against their total. That is why the maximum number of pikemen is an odd number. You can have an additional 11 Ordonnance Longbowmen though.

[Millsy]

Ha! I stopped reading that too. Not to worry, it will make for a point of difference and a bit of a challenge.

The extra points from the "downgrade" to FC can go towards upgrading my English Billmen to Superior. Totals up nicely to 797pts. Alternatively, I can buy stakes for all three Mixed BGs to total exactly 800pts and make a big block of really hard to shift troops.

Thanks for the help guys!

[peterrjohnston]

Another 30 or 45 points spare... can't have an IC with Burgundian Ordonnance.

Amazing! The first army list I've seen that can't have an Inspired Commander (historically justified of course), but then I stopped looking at the top of the table when flipping through. Are there other armies that can't have an IC?

There's obviously a few that must have an IC. Mithrdates the Not-So-Great can't be an IC, not that it
makes much difference in the list. In Armenian, Tigran the Other-Not-So-Great can't be either, which
rules out using the half-decent infantry.

Haven't noticed any others in the first two books - haven't got the later ones yet, waiting on the
Roman book, which reminds me, it'll be out anyday now, time to order

Rgds,
Peter