Old rules, new rules?

[Emoni]

Okay, so I splurged and bought the whole package of IAP (no Sealion, but maybe later). I noticed in the settings that you can pick the "rule set" 1.14 or something, and 2.0.

Where do I find out the differences about this? What major differences are they anyway? I also noticed the Chess dice mention of random battle results, but how is that different than normal?

Thanks for any help you can provide! Much appreciated.

[Ursulet]

The main difference is the prestige cap with rules 1.20. Once the average value of your core gets above 400, the prestige uou earn will start to be reduced. That can hit you hard in 43 when you upgrade your core units( even though SE units are excluded from the calculation). There are other changes related to the bonus infantry and AT units get with experience. AT get +2 HA so for instance an AT gun with 24 HA with 3* has an effective HA of 30. Cant remember how the changes work for infantry...

[Emoni]

Thanks!

[Stephen1024]

1.20 much harder you must think much more about what equipment use, but it's nice to not be able use all tiger forces.

Chess mode if I remember rightly is whether you have random scores when you attack or defend. so if you mouse over you see 2 / 3 score for attack or defend thats what will be score. It's for those that hate see score of 4 / 1 then have there unit nearly destroyed from lucky roll for enemy. I never used chess mode as I prefer random element even if at times it can be annoying with unlucky/lucky roll (depending on side).

If your new start 1.14 rules and please read about 1.20 rules and best way counter the prestige cap. You need read lots as I have done and you probably still make mess of your first 1.20 grand campaign.

[robman]

I had not really thought through the implications of the soft cap for SE units until I read this thread. As far as I can tell, the best strategy is to disband SE infantry immediately and hope for tanks or planes next time. I have not done that in the past until well into the war, when inexperienced infantry can no longer survive. But with the soft cap, one should avoid SE infantry from the very beginning, and build infantry in the regular core only. Is this line of reasoning correct?

[goose_2]

Yes, but I still kept my 1st SE inf awarded.
(He is my favorite unit and most decorated, so far)

[Stephen1024]

There are so many points to whats best with 1.20 then you got level you choose to that will change how you play so its really hard say whats best.

But yes its best with soft cap to have all SE tanks as they don't count towards soft cap when you field your army, hence they can be tigers and tiger 2.

[Ursulet]

I had not really thought through the implications of the soft cap for SE units until I read this thread. As far as I can tell, the best strategy is to disband SE infantry immediately and hope for tanks or planes next time. I have not done that in the past until well into the war, when inexperienced infantry can no longer survive. But with the soft cap, one should avoid SE infantry from the very beginning, and build infantry in the regular core only. Is this line of reasoning correct?

You are absolutely right even if i, for one, never do so. Just cant get rid of them.

[captainjack]

The newer 1.2 rules have quite a big effect across the board. The most obvious impact of the changes for me was the big defensive advantages to heavily entrenched troops and the increasing cost of overstrength.

Personally I like all of the changes except for the prestige cap (mostly because I can't see what it's doing and how it works). Luckily it's quite easy to disable.

[tenshin111]

Personally I like all of the changes except for the prestige cap (mostly because I can't see what it's doing and how it works). Luckily it's quite easy to disable.

Yes, I've seen some posts showing errors in how the soft cap actually works in the game. Can't find the thread now but it is a little bit bugged nevertheless. I have it disabled in the ruleset file.

[Emoni]

There isn't a list of these changes at all anywhere? I love this game, but damn, trying to learn the basic mechanics is a real pain in the ass and mystery half the time!

[tenshin111]

There isn't a list of these changes at all anywhere? I love this game, but damn, trying to learn the basic mechanics is a real pain in the ass and mystery half the time!

Yeah, many things are not that obvious. But you can at least open up gamerules.pzdat file, look at different modifiers and compare to gamerules114. Not super convenient but better than nothing

[Emoni]

Not on the iPad you can't though...

[robman]

Personally I like all of the changes except for the prestige cap (mostly because I can't see what it's doing and how it works). Luckily it's quite easy to disable.

The prestige cap is straightforward, at least in principle. As I understand it, if the average value of your core (excluding SE) goes over 400, the amount of prestige that you win for taking objectives and winning scenarios is reduced proportionally. The value of a unit is its purchase price + the cost of any overstrengthening. The purpose of the soft cap is to discourage the creation of über-cores that steamroll everything in their path. I created such a core in the East GC, prior to the introduction of the cap; it was fun for a while, but by 1945 I got bored and never finished. So I like to play with it on: it keeps the game challenging later in the war without excessive self-discipline on my part.

In practice, the workings of the cap are unnecessarily opaque. Once you have begun a scenario, you can find out if you are over the 400 mark by taking an objective: if you get less than the "full reward," that is the effect of the cap. But (unfortunately, in my view) the game does not display the average value of your deployed core during the deployment phase. It seems to me that this would not be difficult to implement; if a running counter is impractical, then perhaps a warning message might pop up whenever deployment of the selected unit would cause the cap to kick in.

[tenshin111]

Not on the iPad you can't though...

True. But if you have access to a "regular" PC you can download one of the user-made campaigns, for example GTPG, open the zip folder, find the DATA folder and there will be both of the ruleset files for you to study

[tenshin111]

Personally I like all of the changes except for the prestige cap (mostly because I can't see what it's doing and how it works). Luckily it's quite easy to disable.

The prestige cap is straightforward, at least in principle. As I understand it, if the average value of your core (excluding SE) goes over 400, the amount of prestige that you win for taking objectives and winning scenarios is reduced proportionally. The value of a unit is its purchase price + the cost of any overstrengthening.

As it turns out in practice, it is not straightforward and somewhat buggy. Finally, I've found the relevant thread:

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=51105

[robman]

As it turns out in practice, it is not straightforward and somewhat buggy. Finally, I've found the relevant thread:

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=51105

Fascinating. I was "offline" around the time, and missed this discussion. I have not gone far enough in my post-cap reply of the GCs to hit the "über-cap" phenomenon (I have only made it to the end of '43 West so far) but I imagine that it must be as disheartening as streamrolling was boring. I look forward to test results from version 1.24. I would like to play with the soft cap on, but only if it is implemented properly!

[Imarion]

Completely agree,
and very sad they did not take the opportunity of SeaLion/1.24 to solve the bug.

Here is a quote from one of the post in the thread:
"For any newcomer who does not know what he has to expect, it can become quite a disappointance to find a game that becomes pretty much unplayable from DLC E43 on. "
I was exactly in this case and stopped early in 43 as my prestige was going down quickly.

As a result I did not buy SeaLion and won't buy PzC products I do not own yet (like Afrika Corps).

So many threads on the subject and complete silence from the developers is disappointing.

Imarion

[Ursulet]

Dont let that put you off. U can always overcome that on iPad by using the prestige cheat code to cancel the soft cap issue.

[Stephen1024]

I enjoy using 1.20 rule with soft cap as I don't want all tigers.

But my issue with soft cap is it starts to soon gets to drastic, I feel either the cap should be more gradual or shouldn't include transports.

Infantry no transport slow if not moved at right time over run. Most AT guns to expensive to field due transport cost, try moving 1 movement gun not get it over run by red tanks.

Air force your limited as cost planes late war, therefore no chance.

So yes like the idea soft cap but thing it need be done slightly differently, I think it needs to balance the army out more, kick in if you field to much any one thing. Soft cap seems take the fun out infantry as there limited walking only and this is Blitzkrieg lightning war. AT guns hard use and expensive with transport, no fun so its actually counter productive. AT units like the Marder series are defensive unit but were force try use as agressive units instead of tanks we need. IVF-2 isn't that advanced yet its close to the soft cap.

Cost of a
IVf-2 Tank 412
17cm K 18 with transport 380
21cm Nebelwefer with transport 370
Sturmpanzer 327
Wurfahnman 510
StuG IIIF 299
8.8cm FlaK 36 with transport 344
Bf109E 410

Thats 1942 equipment starting get very close to limits already without to much upgrading.

I seriously hope that one patch will provide for us a in game notification on when were close to the soft cap limit.

The soft cap great idea to try balance things out but its not right yet needs work we need see avarage cost of fielded army.