Has the green/arid map issue been resolved in new FoG?

[the_iron_duke]

I haven't played FoG for some time, or followed developments, so I was wondering whether my biggest gripe/bugbear with the game has been addressed in the new version: the green/arid map issue. That is, ensuring that games such as English versus Welsh take place on green maps rather than on arid/desert maps.

From my understanding, the original game code included some provision for this, but that it wasn't implemented into the final release.

Since the new FoG seems to be nearing completion, I was wondering if this has been fixed for the new game?

[stockwellpete]

Yes, this will be dealt with in the new version of the game.

[the_iron_duke]

I was looking in the game files for different armies and noticed coding such as:

aridchance="30"

Some time ago I suggested a system for allocation of green or arid maps according to geographical environment. As I've mentioned above, I was informed that there was some existing coding dealing with this that wasn't utilised.

Seeing the aridchance value in the army file suggests to me that the original intention was to have a system like this:

i) All armies have a percentage chance for an arid map.
ii) The two opposing armies' aridchance values would be added together and divided by two.
iii) Each of the four maps for selection would then have a chance of being arid according to this combined/averaged value.

Examples (aridchance values my own):

Medieval Welsh - 0%
vs
Wars of Roses English - 0%

0% + 0% = 0% chance of any of the four maps being arid

Ancient Britons - 0%
vs
Hoplite Greek - 50%

0% + 50% = 25% for each of the four maps to be arid.

I am guessing that this is how the system was originally intended to operate. Is this correct?

It would produce mostly similar results to the system I suggested. In my system, the Ancient Britons vs Hoplite Greek would be only fought on green maps. I think both systems have merit and have no preference either way.

Also, there may be issues with some players preferring to view maps as arid or green (for reasons such as colour-blindness). Since the map colour has no effect on gameplay, there could perhaps be an option in Preferences to "view map as green/view map as arid" so if someone has difficulty seeing one of the map colours they can change it to their liking. Not sure if the map would instantly change or whether it would require reloading the map.

From what I can see, it is only the earliest released armies that have the aridchance value, and later additions don't have it.

Also, I saw the following coding in an army file and was wondering what it related to:

<terrains terrain1="1" terrain2="1" terrain3="0" terrain4="0" terrain5="0" terrain6="0" terrain7="0" terrain8="0"

[cothyso]

Hello guys,

FoG(RB) intended to do something about this, but it seems it never worked as so.

FoG(U) rev 999 will include new code to specifically deal with this.

The bellow code only triggers if the DAG game's map is not set as chosen (ie a specifically selected map at the challenge's placing).

The preferred map density computations are already included in the FoG(U), and are made as following:

Code: Select all

 Initiative Winner's preferred map density  * 6/10 + Initiative Loser's preferred map density * 1/10  + random map density * 3/10
where:
- map densities are integers from 0 to 4 (0 very open, 1 open, 2 mixed, 3 crowded, 4 very crowded)
- side's preferred map density are depending on game's map density selection's type: weighted random (a random between side's DAG army template's map density chances), highest chance (side's map density with the highest chance), chosen (manually selected by each side)

Example:
- DAG army template 0 (initiative winner) with [10, 20, 50, 20, 0] map density chances vs DAG army template 1 (initiative loser) with [10, 20, 30, 30, 10] map density chances
-a) if map density selection type was set on weighted random, then:
- DAG army template 0 chance intervals are [0-10 very open, 10-30 open, 30-80 mixed, 80-100 crowded], it randoms 73 => preferred map density mixed (int 2)
- DAG army template 1 chance intervals are [0-10 very open, 10-30 open, 30-60 mixed, 60-90 crowded, 90-100 very crowded], it randoms 18 => preferred map density open (int 1)
- game randoms 4 (a very crowded map)
- 2 * 6/10 + 1 * 1/10 + 4 * 3/10 = (12 + 1 + 12) / 10 = 25/10 = 3 (crowded map density)
-b) if map density selection type was set on highest chance, then:
- DAG army template 0 highest density chance is 50 for the mixed map density
- DAG army template 1 highest density chance is 30 for both mixed and crowded map densities -> randomly picks one of them - crowded map density
- game randoms 1 (an open map density)
= 2 * 6/10 + 3 * 1/10 + 1 * 3/10 = (12 + 3 + 3) /10 = 18/10 = 2 (mixed map density)
-c) if map density selection type was set on chosen, then:
- DAG army template 0 picks up a very open map density (int 0)
- DAG army template 1 picks up a mixed map density (int 2)
- game randoms 3 (a crowded map density)
= 0 * 6/10 + 2 * 1/10 + 3 * 3/10 = (0 + 2 + 9) /10 = 11/10 = 1 (open map density)

The preferred map tilset computations will be made as following:

Code: Select all

 a random using (Initiative Winner DAG army template's tileset chance[i]  * 2/3 + Initiative Loser DAG army template's tileset chance[i] * 1/3) as chance intervals for each tilset

Example:
- DAG army template 0 (initiative winner) with [80, 20] map tileset chances vs DAG army template 1 (initiative loser) with [0, 100] map tileset chances
-a) if map selection type was set on weighted random, then
- map tileset chance for green is 80 * 2/3 + 0 * 1/3 = 160/3 = 53
- map tileset chance for arid is 20 * 2/3 + 100 * 1/3 = 140/3 = 47
- game randoms 69 -> an arid map is chosen

This preferred map tileset will then be used to either filter the presented maps list (ie only green or arid maps in list), or force map's tileset (maps will be both green or arid, but the selected map will be forced to use DAG game's obtained preferred tileset)

The DAG army templates also have terrain types info (beside the map density and map tileset chances used as above), taken from FoG TT books. This info states on what types of terrains can be that army encountered in.
The possible maps terrain types are as following: 0 developed, 1 agricultural, 2 hilly, 3 woodlands, 4 steppes, 5 mountains, 6 tropical, 7 desert. To use this info in the FoG(U) all maps need to be declared which of these categories are falling into. This either has to be manually done for all present FoG(U) maps, or an algorithm needs to be agreed upon in order to automatically process all the maps and have their terrain type category set.

I didn't had time to do this, so usage of this info will only be added once all the maps are processed and have this terrain type set. After that, in a DAG game the possible map terrain types for both armies will be summed and all the maps not falling into those categories will be removed from the presented maps list.

[MikeMarchant]

That's an excellent explanation, Dan, youre a real hero.

Thanks for that.


Best Wishes

Mike

[the_iron_duke]

Quite an elaborate system then! Personally, I'm only interested in the green/arid dichotomy - avoiding the incongruity of green-only armies fighting on arid maps and vice versa. The different terrain types extension is interesting but I appreciate that it would also bring a lot of added complexity with it.

I have some more questions/points then...

i) A multiple-choice question. Which of these statements is accurate:

A - There are green map designs and there are arid map designs and no map design is able to be rendered/has been selected to be rendered in both green and arid "flavours"
B - There are green map designs and there are arid map designs and there are also some map designs that are rendered in both green or arid "flavours"
C - All map designs can be rendered in either green or arid

ii) I am not certain of this, but believe that the person who sets up the game always starts on the same side of the map. This means that if someone only ever plays games that they set up themselves, they only ever get to play maps from one side and not the other. How complicated would it be to add a randomisation of the map facing at game setup so there would be no starting bias between the "host" and "guest" of games?

iii) I have mentioned this before, but it becomes more pertinent if new maps are being added to the game: on the map previews at game set-up, there is no way of telling the difference between gentle and steep hills. This is massively important as the difference between the two can, in some cases, be what separates near-certain victory from near-certain defeat. Currently, it's only the memory of having played maps previously that serves as an aid at the map-choosing stage.