Historical colours for Macedonians?

[Agesilaus]

Does anyone have historically sourced information on what colours to paint Alex. Macedonians? From my Greeks I have already painted Hoplites, Cretans, Peltasts and Thracians. But I know less about the rest. A few questions if anyone can help please:

- I have seen wargame figure pictures of Macedonian Pikemen with a lot of blue helms and cloaks. Was blue a common colour for Macedonians?
- What about the shields? Some people have painted elaborate faces on their shields, others have star patterns. Which is right? are both historical (hoping the faces are not, as that looks like a lot of work...)
- In the unfortunate event that teh faces are correct, does anyone make 15mm sheild transfers for them?
- I take it purple cloaks for the horse companions are correct?

thanks for any help

Scott

[Ninthplain]

Hello there,

I am currently working through the same. I have been using Osprey books as my guide for the color scheme. Most of my pike are going to be lavender and yellow based on a picture I saw in the Osprey. It sounds like an Easter egg but you can sure see it coming.
All of the under garments are going to be the same color so I can tell one BG from another.

I have also painted 12 stands with linen armour just for a differant look so I can point out differant groups easily to an opponent.

Little Big Men Studios makes a decent decal for 15's and once you get used to putting them on the results are very nice. I highly recommend them.

Other than the 8 point star emblem I am not sure if I have read a definitive source on how a shield should look so I would go with what you think looks good.

[MarkSieber]

Duncan Head's _Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars_ is an excellent one-stop reference. A very abbreviated painting guide & links can be found at http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba36.html Veni Vidi Vici also makes shield transfers.

[Quintus]

Sorry for the rushed and brief reply. This is only a tea break.

- I have seen wargame figure pictures of Macedonian Pikemen with a lot of blue helms and cloaks. Was blue a common colour for Macedonians?

We don't know how common blue was. An Osprey book mentions that blue helms can be seen and may have signalled elite soldiers (units or officers).

- What about the shields? Some people have painted elaborate faces on their shields, others have star patterns. Which is right? are both historical (hoping the faces are not, as that looks like a lot of work...)

The historic emblem of the Macedonians is the star pattern.


Angus McBride's paintings for Osprey's The Army of Alexander the Great is very colourful but I suspect that the late artist got a bit carried away at times. He is an artist that tended to go for impact and vividness. Pictures in the book show shields with portraits on them and soldiers are shown having very colourful cuirasses and clothing. It is fair to point out that these probably portray elite soldiers and that the artist can only work to his brief. I think most troops were plainer than those shown. However at 6mm or 15mm or even 25mm things don't matter too much.

- In the unfortunate event that teh faces are correct, does anyone make 15mm sheild transfers for them?

Yes but I don't have the time to find a link just now. Perhaps Little Big Men or Vexillia.

- I take it purple cloaks for the horse companions are correct?

It is thought that Companions should have red or dun coloured cloaks. Purple was the preserve of kings.

[ars_belli]

Angus McBride's paintings for Osprey's The Army of Alexander the Great is very colourful but I suspect that the late artist got a bit carried away at times. He is an artist that tended to go for impact and vividness. Pictures in the book show shields with portraits on them and soldiers are shown having very colourful cuirasses and clothing. It is fair to point out that these probably portray elite soldiers and that the artist can only work to his brief. I think most troops were plainer than those shown.

In addition to the excellent points raised above, it should be borne in mind that the depictions of richly-garbed Macedonians would only apply after Alexander gave expensive clothing and armor to his troops following the conquest of Persia. The appearance of the Macedonian army during the actual campaign against the Persians would have been more like this:

http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/j ... ginal.aspx
http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/j ... ginal.aspx
http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/j ... ginal.aspx

Cheers,
Scott

[Agesilaus]

Thanks those pictures are excellent! In fact, those colours aren't so far from the colours of my Hoplite army, which is great. That means I can "morph" it to Alex Imperial if I just paint up the Pikemen and Companions. Looks like the other cavalry and light troops will still be fine

[Quintus]

Wow! What superb pictures.

[ars_belli]

Thanks those pictures are excellent! In fact, those colours aren't so far from the colours of my Hoplite army, which is great. That means I can "morph" it to Alex Imperial if I just paint up the Pikemen and Companions. Looks like the other cavalry and light troops will still be fine

You are very welcome.

The artist's name is Johnny Shumates, and his portfolio page may be found here: http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/j ... portfolio/

This one shows a good representation of the Macedonian eight-pointed star: http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/j ... ginal.aspx

Good stuff!

Cheers,
Scott

[flameberge]

Duncan Head's _Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars_ is an excellent one-stop reference. A very abbreviated painting guide & links can be found at http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba36.html Veni Vidi Vici also makes shield transfers.

Uh yeah well I usually like to paint all my historical stuff accurate but NO WAY am I going to paint my army those colors. Not exactly manly looking, I would think.

[willb]

Duncan Head's _Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars_ is an excellent one-stop reference. A very abbreviated painting guide & links can be found at http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba36.html Veni Vidi Vici also makes shield transfers.

Uh yeah well I usually like to paint all my historical stuff accurate but NO WAY am I going to paint my army those colors. Not exactly manly looking, I would think.

in that case don't go into napoleonics - french guard cavalry in pink and cream or baby blue . the description of the uniform colors on that site sound like they were taken from ospry's "the army of alexander the great" book. those have been commented on by quintus.

[MarkSieber]

Re: Manly Looking. Alexander's troops were very unhappy when he started wearing Persian trousers, which they considered effeminate , preferring the 'manly' tunic which would be considered a 'dress' if you wore it in public today . Dye technology in ancient times meant that colors were difficult to fix; blues fade more quickly than reds, and all colors faded more easily than modern pigments. As a result, pastel colors would have been more common, and pinks and yellows would be what remained of reds and greens. Purple was the royal color because this mollusk-derived dye was expensive, brilliant and relatively permanent--but isn't considered particularly masculine today. Times and connotations change.

[mdoolitt]

Does anyone have historically sourced information on what colours to paint Alex. Macedonians? From my Greeks I have already painted Hoplites, Cretans, Peltasts and Thracians. But I know less about the rest. A few questions if anyone can help please:

- I have seen wargame figure pictures of Macedonian Pikemen with a lot of blue helms and cloaks. Was blue a common colour for Macedonians?

The blue is from a tomb painting (in poor condition) which seems to show a blue helmet. Now, the helmet could really have been painted blue, or it could be a artistic representation of steel.

- What about the shields? Some people have painted elaborate faces on their shields, others have star patterns. Which is right? are both historical (hoping the faces are not, as that looks like a lot of work...)

They could be equally correct, but ask yourself this -- you've just marched 1500 miles across Asia Minor. Tomorrow you go into battle, and someone is going to be hitting your shield with objects blunt, sharp and/or pointy. You were just issued a new shield. Do you paint it with a star (5 minutes), or an elaborate face (1 hour)? My feeling is that, on campaign, soldier tend to be more pragmatic than not.

- In the unfortunate event that teh faces are correct, does anyone make 15mm sheild transfers for them?

Veni Vidi Vici or LBM studios I think.

- I take it purple cloaks for the horse companions are correct?

I believe "purple for royalty only" was an idea of a later era (Roman Empire or Middle Ages).

That being said, purple was rather expensive. But if you like purple, go ahead! Maybe the Companions all got lucky at dice...

[will05]

Hi
The Osprey uses the Abdolymus sarcophagus (probably spelt that wrong) and the Isus mosaic as its sources. The bloke in the sarcophagus was of the time of and to some degree involved with Alexander ( I believe ), and the mosaic is thought to be taken from a painting done at the time of Alexander or just after. So the Osprey pictures may well be the true indication of the look of the Macedonian army at that time.

HOWEVER...the problem with ancient history is that the sources are actually quite sparse. Given this a lot of what we see about these people is conjecture based on the few facts (I'm not sure thats quite the right word) we have. A lot of stuff can be guessed at, with a little evidence and some common sense.....but uniform colours of these sought of armies are often best guess and someones theory.

So I would say that the Osprey is definitely historically sourced, but it depends on where you stand in relation to the source and that particular interpretation of the sources.

Another factor to think about is , are the uniforms shown in the sources the campaign or parade uniforms. My armies are painted as a parade army, and I always go for the most clourful uniforms within the source interpretations. It's the look I like.

I would say that your painting options are quite wide really. If you want easy you could go with bronze shields for the average pike and silver for the Hypasists, and white linen and red tunics.

I believe, but can't remember whether it was from a source or some ones theory but I heard that blue was the colour of the infantry, hence the blue helmets, but only on the foot I think. There also purple and red helmets from the above mentioned sarcophagus.

Purple was the most expensive dye at that time, followed by yellow I think. Alexander captured a huge amount of purple clothe which had been sitting in the Persian treasury for 100 years. Adorning his army in such expensive colours could have been politically quite a good show of power in relation to his need to be accepted as the leader of the greatest empire on earth at the time, just a thought .

I don't know much about the macedonian sun, but as far as I know, it was in a find of a tomb somewhere in modern Albania. The tomb is thought to be a macedonian royal tomb, but, I believe it may not be definitely linked to the macedonians as a badge, maybe just a decoration. The sun symbol was a common symbol in Greece at the time.
However I can't remember where I heard this so.......!

Hope this helps
Will

[ars_belli]

The Macedonian star (or sun) was first discovered on an embossed gold larnax (ash-chest) from a royal Macedonian tomb at Vergina. It's purpose and symbolism are indeed unclear. Here's a bit more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergina_Sun
http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Museu ... ginas.html
http://odysseus.culture.gr/h/1/eh151.jsp?obj_id=3297

Cheers,
Scott

[Luddite]

Duncan Head's _Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars_ is an excellent one-stop reference. A very abbreviated painting guide & links can be found at http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba36.html Veni Vidi Vici also makes shield transfers.

Uh yeah well I usually like to paint all my historical stuff accurate but NO WAY am I going to paint my army those colors. Not exactly manly looking, I would think.

LOL

Agreed.

For my Macedonians i went for a 'theme' colour, taking the blue of the helmet and theming the phalanx with a blue/white/brown/bronze scheme.

I themed the cavalry red/black/white, and the supporting light troops i went generic with flat olives, browns, whites etc.

It might not be historically accurate but at least the army doesn't look like some sort of 'rainbow warrior' nightmare - although given the Hellenistic disposition towards pederasty, maybe garish pinks and pastles ARE historically accurate? Maybe the phalanx was like some sort of Liberace / Big Gay Al chorus line mincing forwards towards the Persian horde?

Frankly i think modern gamers are more concerned with what their armies look like than the historical generals!

EDIT: Some images of the phalanx







Note these are painted using my 'speed technique'...that is; paint them good enough to look impressive massed on the table top without worrying too much about the up-close quality. I painted the entire DBM Macedinian army in about 24hrs (over 2 weeks using that technique...the bases need redoing though.

More found here:

http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/sjhhej/

[discok3]

I like purple and I am painting my Macedonians that very colour..well the Companions anyway!
You lot need to get in touch with your feminine sides and stop hiding behind your drab browns and greys..and your beards!
Why such a downer on purple or colour in general?..what about the mincing Gauls?they look like a Gay Pride march if ever I saw one!!..lol

[ars_belli]

I believe "purple for royalty only" was an idea of a later era (Roman Empire or Middle Ages).

Actually, the Romans adopted the idea from the the Hellenistic Greeks, who in turn got it from the Achaemenid Persians.

Cheers,
Scott

[flameberge]

Re: Manly Looking. Alexander's troops were very unhappy when he started wearing Persian trousers, which they considered effeminate , preferring the 'manly' tunic which would be considered a 'dress' if you wore it in public today.

That may be but I'm the one painting my army so what I think today is what matters most to me.

I guess I just am used to painting WW2 green, brown, and chamo uniforms.

[Strategos69]

Here you have another illustration from an historian, Peter Connolly, that can help you:



Points to underline to represent historically a phalanx:
- It is quite probable that Ancient Macedonian Army did NOT use a unified helmet. People wonder if they were blue, red or just bronze (and as it has been said, we cannot know) but if you want to be historical accurate you should consider getting some miniatures without the Phrygian helmet.
- It is possible that rear ranks were completed with unprotected pikemen, even wearing no helmets at all.
- Ypu should depict file leaders, middle file leaders and rear rank leaders. I think that standard bearers and musicians were in the rear ranks too, but I am not sure.

My recommendation: choose whatever you prefer. In my opinion bronze helmets let you to use those pikement as later pikemen in some Epirot or Later Macedonian (and looks better). If you don't use purple it would be easier to represent later pikemen (as purple was very rare). You will have two armies for the prize of one

[willb]

i painted my pike phalanx in similar colors to those shown in the connolly illustration and as depicted on the covers of armies of the macedonian and punic wars by duncan head. http://folk.uio.no/arnsteio/DBXin6mm/al ... /pike.html shows how someone else painted their phalanx units. i usually avoid standards and musicians for hoplite or phalanx units if possible, but have used some in the rear ranks.