Midway USA advice please

[Longasc]

I reached a famous critical battle of the campaign.

How would you prepare? I might watch the movie of the same name again tonight. But probably after I tried my luck ingame.

I have
2x CV (Yorktown, Lexington 42)
2x Wildcat
2x Dauntless
1x P40 Warhawk - Upgrade to P40F worth it?
2x Kingfisher
1x Tambor Sub (upgrade to Gato useful in any way?)
1x PT Boat
2x CA (Wichita, New Orleans)
2x DD Greaves 42 + 1 dead DD Greaves 42.

683 Requisition points, have to do moderate repairs on both Carriers.

Any particular advice or strategy you would recommend? Which Secondary objective would you go for?

[hellcat23]

I would say you are missing 2 torpedo bomber planes... they do good damage against larger ships such as carriers.

You have to stop the invasion fleet as an important objective. Use the destroyer screen you are given and if you advance too far past that you may activate a more aggressive Japanese navy and they will come after you...

I would suggest trying to achieve air superiority as soon as possible.

[Longasc]

Yeah, two torpedo bombers would be good. The inventory of the two or so NPC carriers is Fighter, Dive Bomber, Torpedo Bomber. Might copy that. But on the other hand I fear Japanese Fighters. Will my 2 Wildcats and the two from the NPC carriers be enough? The Fighter-Dive-Torpedo setup is in favor of bombers with 1 escort for protection of the Carrier or one of the two bombers or attack duty. Might have to make it 2 Fighters and 2 Torpedo Bombers, but that will cost 400 resources already. Hmm!

[hellcat23]

You will most likely run into Japanese CAP as well as their ship AA on your first run in on their carriers - I lost a bomber on that run. Your own fighters will need to be split among running your own CAP for your carriers as well as escorting your bombers.

If you keep your own carriers back and out of danger you can probably be better served with the extra bomber. I tended to be more protective of my own carriers with my fighters than sending them to escort bombers. Most of the time a bomber will make it back to the carrier below strength and can be repaired.

[deadtorius]

I went with 4 fighters and 2 torpedo bombers myself. Then added a dive bomber. Send the dive bombers down south to deal with the invasion force, they are very good Vs transports and DD's. I suggest you want more recon planes, I went in with 4, they get shot down but having that much eye in the sky will give you an edge in finding the Japanese fleet. Torpedo planes are best in this one as they will damage the capital ships better than a dive bomber.
I used my recon planes to spot the incoming Japanese bombers that then got jumped by my 4 fighters plus any other fighters from the other carriers, 1 bomber made it in at 3 strength and got in 1 attack before it died. I ended up shooting down the entire Japanese air force, which triggers the Japanese to run for the exit points on the left of the map. Barely got 2 carriers by the time I launched an attack against the carrier force, left it too late.

[Longasc]

I apparently triggered a "run" mode for the carriers fairly early on. I hope this doesn't mean I lost the remainder of the 35 turns for the resources per turn!

I destroyed all planes and sunk 4 carriers, but not all. Quite a good result, will go on with this. Had no losses of my own, my planes took some damage ofc and it has to be repaired.

[Longasc]

I ended up shooting down the entire Japanese air force, which triggers the Japanese to run for the exit points on the left of the map. Barely got 2 carriers by the time I launched an attack against the carrier force, left it too late.

Oh, may I join that club.
This trigger is rubbing me a little the wrong way. Aka "leave one plane, so that they don't run".

[monkspider]

I ended up shooting down the entire Japanese air force, which triggers the Japanese to run for the exit points on the left of the map. Barely got 2 carriers by the time I launched an attack against the carrier force, left it too late.

Oh, may I join that club.
This trigger is rubbing me a little the wrong way. Aka "leave one plane, so that they don't run".

I agree strongly with this! I just finished this scenario as the USA and I feel like this trigger is punishing players for being successful. If I am really good at shooting the Japanese planes out of the air, it can actually cause me to lose the scenario. I think the retreat should be set to trigger no earlier than say turn 24 or 25 or something like that.

[deadtorius]

.

Aka "leave one plane, so that they don't run".

As it happened I had damaged a Japanese bomber but it flew out of sight and I guess ran out of fuel. One of my subs that was on shadow the carriers duty spotted it just south of the exit zone. It either crashed or exited, either way it was not present next turn. I think the trigger is when you get the message that the Japanese lost their entire air arm, or something like that, then they bug out. My guess is its likely going to happen regardless unless you don't try to shoot down the Japanese air arm. Then your bombers can take massive damage trying to get by the Zeros on the way in and out. I'll accept the Japanese fleet is fleeing result and keep my fly boys alive as much as I can.

[Dragoon.]

Mine the mid exit hexes with a B-17 or Catalina.

On my mine first play I used a B-17 to harass the invasion fleet. Later I thought to drop mines in the path of enemy carriers. but then I triggered the fleet retreat.
My bomber where all on their way back to refuel, and I panicked. I started to drop mines on the exit hexes in hope to slow down their retreat.
Quickly I noticed the enemy fleet is only using the mid exit hexes, ignoring all other hexes. Since those are only 5 hexes I realized the potential this huge critical tactical failure has for exploitation. A mistake like that deserves to be punished. So, I restarted and started right away mining all 5 mid exit hexes with a Catalina this time.

Worked like a charm. Destroyed every single ship. Because I crossed the mid of the map with surface vessels before triggering the retreat I provoked the Yamato task force to spawn.
Well, she went down as well , but was a very hard kill indeed. Only torpedo bombers and my 2 subs could hurt her. There is no bonus for sinking her, so it was in all a very expensive victory in cost of mines and planes lost, but incredibility fun and sinking the Yamato is very cool.
The devs didn't like my strategy. I know it's cheesy, but I'm only used the tools the game gave me work with. Don't give me a hammer if you don't want me to break things.




About the triggering the fleet retreat. Seems it happened when the total number of enemy planes drops below a certain threshold. I specifically tried to avoid destroying any enemy flight groups, but instead just shoot them down to 1-4 planes each. Still caused the retreat.

[gunnergoz]

As a military history buff all of my life, my eyes bleed and my heart breaks to look at that screen grab. But its only a game, I remind myself...as I look around for the whiskey.

[Longasc]

Gawd! Well played!

Shows again the flaws of scripted events. Once people know they can exploit them massively. Midway is just the prime example where things go wrong due to it, the other scenarios are apparently and thankfully not as easy to manipulate in such ways. I doubt the only-mid-exit thing will be fixed in the upcoming patch, I am not sure what got changed.

[Dragoon.]

As a military history buff all of my life, my eyes bleed and my heart breaks to look at that screen grab. But its only a game, I remind myself...as I look around for the whiskey.

I'm playing now for almost 20 years Gary Grigsby's Pacific War and it successors. A bit fun once in while off the path must be when the devil drives.


This tactic could be really easy fixed if dropping mines had a cool down. The unrealistic parts is not me mining the exit route, but that a Catalina has enough cargo space for enough naval mines to lock down god knows how many nautical miles. Like torpedo bombers a cool down should in an abstract way simulate rearming process. Although, maybe even completely remove the ability, and leave it to stat bombers.

In the initial first play I used a B-17, which was suboptimal because it ran out of fuel. The second time I bought a Catalina, which I would not done otherwise considering she cost 2 air points and can't land/repair on heavy ships unlike the other recon craft. But she can drop mines and never needs to refuel. Basically game design, map and scenario design decisions converged to create this SNAFU.

[Longasc]

And I should have got a Catalina instead of Kingfishers!

Or does anyone here argue in favor of Kingfishers?

[Myrddraal]

As a military history buff all of my life, my eyes bleed and my heart breaks to look at that screen grab. But its only a game, I remind myself...as I look around for the whiskey.

I agree! Not what we had in mind when we introduced exit hexes! But each to their own I guess.

[Dragoon.]

As a military history buff all of my life, my eyes bleed and my heart breaks to look at that screen grab. But its only a game, I remind myself...as I look around for the whiskey.

I agree! Not what we had in mind when we introduced exit hexes! But each to their own I guess.

This could also very easily fixed if the AI get taught a few basic things, which in return would improve the game easily. Against a human player this would not have worked at all. I would just have thrown away 100 resource points.

1. Japanese fleet could have used any of the other exit hexes. Despite many more are available it limited itself to the 5 in mid.

2. The Japanese fleet had several support ships at their disposal. They should just have cleared the minefield and be done with it. Either the AI don't know how to clear a minefield with support ships or pathfinding is weak. If the AI indeed don't know how to clear minefield, then mines should be disabled until you teach them. I already noticed in Bataan that if I mine a bridge instead to blow it up it greatly confused the AI.

3. Sacrifice. A basic tactic for every chess player in the world. It was a great day when Chess computer finally where taught to make strategic sacrifices, it would be too for the OOB AI.
The AI could have simply used destroyers to clear the mines and immediately start evacuation. That is what I would have done in this situation. Even with supports ships. Simply because it's a quick solution to save the carriers. I don't want be here when the enemy torpedo bombers return. BTW Panzer Corps AI can clear minefields.

4. Opposing team exit hexes should be invisible anyway unless there is a specific reason to see them. Like the only route out, by intel or an event.

Come On don't blame me for the shortcomings of the AI. I'm just playing the game in the state I have bought it. Most important is that we have fun, and remember Game of Thrones. The guy that fights dirty always wins, the other guy falls through a hole looking like a fool.

[gunnergoz]

And I should have got a Catalina instead of Kingfishers!

Or does anyone here argue in favor of Kingfishers?

2 Kingfishers reveal twice as much as a Catalina for the same price. When you absolutely, positively, must find those enemy carriers, you need all the area searched that you possibly can, and as fast as possible. Recon planes are the -cheap- key to early victory.

[simcc]

Mining exit point is so cheesy hahaha but expensive still luckily I don't need to apply that tactic hahaha. For me a well timing bombing run takes down those carriers. It's easy as those carriers are all in the same place. Cruising up and down but still once you find 1 you find all.

Thx

[Dragoon.]

Mining exit point is so cheesy hahaha but expensive still luckily I don't need to apply that tactic hahaha. For me a well timing bombing run takes down those carriers. It's easy as those carriers are all in the same place. Cruising up and down but still once you find 1 you find all.

Thx

Well, this would not have happened if the Japanese had the same advanced technology like the US in the Guadalcanal scenario, where a Battleship, several cruisers and destroyers manged to teleport out of the combat zone.
Did they pull off the Philadelphia Experiment?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment

[Myrddraal]

You're quite right dragoon, we could have needed that tactic with slightly different game design decisions, but I'll be honest it's a tactic that never occurred to me until I saw your screenshot.

As you say, we gave you the tools...