can you open up the beta forums now to the general public?

[dijonace]

I for one would like to see if there was a vibrant conversation previously on an undo button.

[Blathergut]

There wasn't much. The idea of an undo button is really opposite to how the game plays. Save often! It can be frustrating when you click something the wrong way by accident, for sure, and there will always be a time or two like that. But once I got use to the fact there wasn't one, I never really missed it.

[harley9699]

Never played with the beta, but it's a good deal. I play Panzer Corps with a self-induced no undo button rule.

[harry_vdk]

At the beginning of the beta i realy mis the undo (using a Unity of Command playstyle were you put a unit next to a opposite unit look and the combat prediction, undo and take your next unit for the combat prediction).

With the introduce of the "Combat prognosis" where you can hover with the mouse above every target within range. The undo button not a issue anymore. Just like a real battle there is also no undo button.

[Horst]

F5/F8 for quicksave/-load is not that slow, so you can easily forgo the undo. Yeah, it's true about the argument that you could scout around a bit with the undo feature until you stumble onto enemy units. I found it no big deal so far to play without undo.
As mentioned above, you can hover your mouse pointer to possible hexes to see combat results on valid targets. A very useful feature for naval units to see how less effective their attack become the further they move!

[adherbal]

A "double confirm" option is something we way add, but an undo button is unlikely. Particulary in multiplayer it would be pure cheating.

For example you could move, undo, move, undo, ... around an area where you know enemy commandos or submarines (hidden units) are operating until you find them.

[morge4]

A "double confirm" option is something we way add, but an undo button is unlikely. Particulary in multiplayer it would be pure cheating.

For example you could move, undo, move, undo, ... around an area where you know enemy commandos or submarines (hidden units) are operating until you find them.

Totally agree but...alot of the games around that do use "undo", script it so that if you "spot" an enemey unit, you can't "undo" your turn. That helps a bit with the cheating aspect.

I like the idea of a "double confirm", hmmm.

[FroBodine]

Yes. I don't know what the problem is. Only allow a player to undo their move if that move did not uncover any new terrain, units or information. If so, no undo. Otherwise, allow undo.

I think Panzer Corps does it this way, and it works.

[adherbal]

The issue is that NOT revealing anything is information as well. For example: If you were just attacked by a hidden submarine you'd be able to move to every hex it can possibly be at, undoing the move every time until you find it.

[harry_vdk]

Just like a sonar puls with a wider range.

[FroBodine]

The issue is that NOT revealing anything is information as well. For example: If you were just attacked by a hidden submarine you'd be able to move to every hex it can possibly be at, undoing the move every time until you find it.

That's why you make the big bucks, Lukas! You are right, of course. I have to go back and play Panzer Corps to see how they worked it. It sure didn't feel like cheating in that game, but maybe it was all along!

[Dragoon.]

The issue is that NOT revealing anything is information as well. For example: If you were just attacked by a hidden submarine you'd be able to move to every hex it can possibly be at, undoing the move every time until you find it.

That's why you make the big bucks, Lukas! You are right, of course. I have to go back and play Panzer Corps to see how they worked it. It sure didn't feel like cheating in that game, but maybe it was all along!

I recall when I played the Crete scenario the first time, I used a fighter and undo to scout for the invasion fleet, to hit them right away with level bombers. Oh gosh, that was so lame of me. Though there was some guilty pleasure in it.

[Aloo]

Ive waited till Ive had some time with the game to make up my opinion on the lack of the undo button. Now I know that I need that button or a double confirm.
I cant count the number of times Ive clicked on the wrong hex or forgot I have a unit selected and clicked somewhere.
This might have something to do with the fact I play fairly quickly and usually after a beer or three, but it is a beer and pretzels game so I shouldn't punished for this

[simcc]

PzC undo button is great if spotted enemy cant undo but if not you can just in case you miss click and the double confirm button is a better idea

[Aloo]

After reading some comments I agree that double confirmation might be better as the undo button might be tempting to use as a tool for searching for the irritating subs.

[Erik2]

Double confirmation would also work for multiplayer games, undo button not

[zakblood]

I for one would like to see if there was a vibrant conversation previously on an undo button.

beta forums are private forums, and hopefully will never be opened to full access for many reasons, main one is many are still used for patches and other feedback etc and future stuff so tbh can't see it happening any time soon or if at all.

then again i could be wrong, it won't be the first or last time either tbh

regarding a undo button, if you make a mistake use the reload save key, as it saves every turn, if it matters that much, a undo is a cheat key and there's plenty of cheat keys already in the game imo, like war moves shouldn't be able to be taken back either way and better to live with it as the FOW

[Tarrak]

I for one would like to see if there was a vibrant conversation previously on an undo button.

regarding a undo button, if you make a mistake use the reload save key, as it saves every turn, if it matters that much, a undo is a cheat key and there's plenty of cheat keys already in the game imo, like war moves shouldn't be able to be taken back either way and better to live with it as the FOW

Imho it's all about options. The cheat codes are already in the game. You can always save and reload every move to simulate the undo button, just in a annoying time consuming way. You can use all this or not, personal choice, which is fine in a single player game. Why not give people an undo button. If they want to use it, they can. If they prefer not to use, they aren't forced to. Exactly the same as the already built in cheat codes. Muliplayer is another topic of course but it's easy to disable the undo button in multiplayer games.

[Myrddraal]

I understand the point about having the option to cheat if you like, but when you enter a cheat code there is a clear delineation with normal gameplay. Most new players who haven't got a deep understanding of the game mechanics yet wouldn't realise the unfair advantage that the undo button grants, especially players familiar with other titles which don't have the concealable and commando unit traits. The undo button would appear legitimate if we included it.

But aside from it being unfair, we also didn't consider it to be necessary once you're familiar with the controls. The two mouse button scheme is also available for those that prefer to select units and issue commands with a different button.

Having said all that, I think it's probably fair to say we've heard the 'give us the choice' argument and understand a lot of players want this. It's a bit tricky to retrofit an undo button to the game. In particular the current trigger system is an obstacle. It's not insurmountable; a relatively straightforward solution would be to disable undo if a trigger fires, but that would probably lead to confusion if the effect of the trigger isn't visible. More complex complete solutions are also possible.

[Tarrak]

Technical reasons that prevent the undo button are of course different topic.

I agree as well with you about the delineation in game play between the cheat codes and an undo button. The delineation between save/load multiple time instead of using the undo button is not as clear tho but in the long run it doesn't really matter IMHO. I think in a single player game everyone can do as he pleases. If he wants to cheat why not. After all you can mod the game and make it as easy/hard as you like.

The undo button is certainly not necessary and i personally at least can live very well without it. I would only use it to correct a mistake i made by missclicking or not paying attention and moving the wrong unit accidentally. It happens to me maybe once every 20 turns and if it's really critical i can just reload the save and redo the turn then but it's sometimes a bit cumbersome. Especially in scenarios with lots of units when i made the mistake at the end of the turn.

TLDR: An undo button is not needed but it can add to comfort and even if its considered cheating, in a single player game it's IMHO up to everyone to chose to cheat or not cheat. It doesn't affect anyone else.