Knights in BGs of 4 or 6?

sphallen · Post by **sphallen** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:20 pm

I'm preparing my army list for Origins and I'm running Early Crusader in 25mm (based on what I know about the list, don't have the book yet). I'm planning to run 12 knights, in your experience is it better to run them as 3x4 or 2x6? In my limited play experience I've run them both ways and don't have a clear idea on which is best.

Thanks,
Steve

WhiteKnight · Post by **WhiteKnight** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:12 pm

In my experience, which is only using armies from the Storm of Arrows, having superior knights in 4s is ok...its easier to get them into one rank for the charge and their cohesion and combat rerolls are a protection, too. However, average grade knights seem to have more staying power in 6s! When I had my Condottiere in 4s it was horrible to behold but with 6s they had bases to spare from a rear rank and didn't drop the 25% as soon as they lost a base.

Martin

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:18 pm

What Martin said is sound advice

Si

miffedofreading · Post by **miffedofreading** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:18 pm

I have not played with a knights army yet, but because they only count one rank deep I assumed 6 bases would be ludicrously long?

Do you manage anyway, or do you have at least a partial 2nd rank?

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:21 pm

With 6s best to go 5 wide with 1 at the back to soak up some casualties and keep the frontal dice high. General inthe front for a stonking upgrade too.

Si

WhiteKnight · Post by **WhiteKnight** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:50 pm

Those Condottiere 6s initally deploy 3x2 and open out as soon as impact looms! With these trained hirelings, I have found it's pretty useful to hold a BG of 4 in reserve and/or have other rear support plus pay the extra for an inspired commander! It's belt, braces and string but it has stopped them getting blown away first off by Men at Arms of better breeding!

Martin

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:56 pm

In my experience it depends on how many knights you have in your army.

With 12 or less I would go with BGs of 4 (or 6 if they are average drilled)
More than 12 gives you the option for one or two BGs of 6 to really maximise your TCs. Two BGs of 6 with two TCs should beat three BGs of 4 with two TCs IMO.

Probert · Post by **Probert** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:26 pm

I have not used an army with knights yet, but my inclination would be to "get there the fastest with the mostest" with your hammer formations. I would go with 6 stand battlegroups. If you are going to use them as the armored strike force, it is best to strike with the biggest force.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:53 pm

I think the formation you run them in is important too.

For 6s I like 4 foward 2 back. It is easy to mauver and gets a bit more striking power in the front rank.

Then you need commanders nearby for that + for the CMT to spread out if you have a nice target.

The danger of running them 6 wide is they can also take fire from a lot more directions and become more vulerable. SO if you are facing a lot of bow or Longbow you run them narrow and deep with neighboring BGs to absorb more fire.

As others have remarked they can go to 4s if superior. But the are brittle. Once bad things start happening it cascades. lose a stand go disrupted now you are -2 on the next CT and almost any hit could make you test with a minus and that is worse.

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:27 pm

One thing I want to try out is a group of 6 superior led by an ally general to save a few points.

fukateesays · Post by **fukateesays** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:23 pm

I wonder how much time they spent working this sort of thing out at Agincourt etc?!!

Malidor · Post by **Malidor** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:54 am

fukateesays wrote:I wonder how much time they spent working this sort of thing out at Agincourt etc?!!

Just long enough to draw up a battleplan which was then ignored

To replay it properly all open space counts as rough (mud) and each battlegroup of French has a different player with an offer of a free beer for the first one to touch any English base

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:38 am

Agincourt was still a partial implementation of the previously agreed "Somme" plan - somewhat buggered up by the mud and the dastardly English using stakes

OhReally · Post by **OhReally** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:15 pm

I'm guessing "knights" or heavy cav is three models to a base like other games of this type? My rulebook is ordered through amazon but has not shipped yet.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:39 pm

Yes knights and cavalry three to a base, cataphracts four, ...or three if you want to save money and not look as scarily AWESOME.