A short list of suggested changes

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MadLuddite
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
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A short list of suggested changes

Post by MadLuddite »

1) Ultramarine units being the cheapest but least powerful overall doesn't make a lot of sense, in-universe or otherwise. They're canonically one of the few chapters that has a pure gene seed, with all of their enhancements intact. At the very least, they should be less specialized, with accuracy and defense between that of the Blood Angels and Salamanders. Maybe 70 accuracy and +5 defense for most units.

2) The damage of multiple weapons on larger vehicles is "compressed". When you get into groupings of four, five, and six heavy bolters or big shootas, they become less useful, relatively. Combined with the small model number of larger vehicle units, you end up with larger vehicles that aren't very good. The "support" heavy bolter is by far the best, and with its 15-20 models (depending on whether it's the SM or Guard one), the unit is vastly better at shooting up infantry than even specialized vehicles like the Leman Russ Punisher or the Baal Predator.

Titan and superheavy weapons in general aren't useful against infantry, even though most of them produce huge explosions in the fluff. This could be rectified by giving them more shots, letting them kill more infantry.

3) Many damage values for individual weapons do not make sense. Why is the Gut Buster Mega Kannon on the Gargant so much weaker than the Death Kannon on the Belly Gun Stompa? Why is the Belly Gun more powerful than the Mega Kannon? The Gargant is, as a result, underpowered; the Belly Gun Stompa is much better at shooting.

Also, why is the Mega Bolter on the Warhound better than the Gatling Blaster on the Reaver? The Gatling Blaster is a larger, heavier weapon. It should have higher attack, more shots, or both.

Why do the battle cannons, conqueror cannons, and laser destroyers only get one shot? Even lascannons get two, while being more powerful (except laser destroyers). There's a reason the Leman Russ's lascannon is its only secondary weapon. Also, battle cannons should be more powerful than Kannons, and longer-ranged than Killkannons.

4) It's already one patch after the "Salamander support artillery" experiment. Either change them back or give all the other SM artillery units the "support" trait.

5) Why are normal bolters the only ones with penetration? Why are normal shootas the only ones with penetration? Support and vehicle-mounted bolters/shootas should also get this.

6) Certain units are near useless or much weaker than they should be. Sentinels are obsolete due to their general inferiority to the Salamander Scout. The basic Leman Russes are pitiful, their battle cannon's single shot and lack of AP (battle cannons definitely fire AP shells) making them bad at pretty much everything. IG Destroyers are worse than many other tanks against armor, also due to their weapon's single shots. There is also a SM air unit that is outright worse than another one, while being the same cost. Tauros units should definitely have 2 HP rather than 1, being vehicles.

Maybe make Sentinels cheaper or give them better weapon options like missiles or plasma cannons?

7) Artillery units should have longer ranges. Right now, the Griffon and Wyvern can't even safely shoot at Tankbustas or Big Shootas without suffering horrifically in the counterfire. They're artillery. They should be able to hit Ork units from out of their ranges.

8) Vehicles in general should be more resilient to small arms fire and weaker melee weapons. Shootas, choppas, and bolters can wreck up medium tanks like the Leman Russes, the Predators, and the battlewagons. They shouldn't be able to. If a Leman Russ can't tear into a mob of shoota boys without fear of being shredded, it's not a Leman Russ.

9) Air units are too fragile, and their dodging bonus is not consistent enough. Also, some of them have trouble circumventing many terrain types despite flying.
FuFuHunt3r
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
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Re: A short list of suggested changes

Post by FuFuHunt3r »

I love the game and played more than 150 fun hours so far because I'm a 40k and strategy fan. However, I can't recomend the game to my friends just yet because of all the things you mentioned above. I want to support the points above even if some of it is only complains without a suggestions ;P

I understand that there are only a few people working at the game and therefore progress is rather slow. The patches so far were all going in the right direction so I have faith, that some day I can tell my friends to get the game (or give it away myself if I must). Keep up the good work and maybe hurry a little :D
Valad
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
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Re: A short list of suggested changes

Post by Valad »

All of these balance/fluff changes can easily be done by people in the community. They are not really the type of changes any developer would do themselves, since the game works as it is, nothing is particularly game breaking/overpowered, and the developers did not originally set out to make 40k rules in the game.

Give it time there will likely be a choice of rules mods coming from the community. Let the devs continue adding to the game and fixing more important issues.
MadLuddite
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
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Re: A short list of suggested changes

Post by MadLuddite »

I should make it clear that I love the game overall. It's just that some people might not have the time or know-how to mod the game themselves. A lot of things require Notepad+, and those changes they made would be overwritten with every patch.

I do like all of the little add-ons the game is getting. Armageddon is far more worth its money than anything tabletop-related that GW makes.

Also, would it be possible to make Salamanders units available a little earlier? I end up with an all-Angels SM army because I get them first, and they're better than the Ultramarines. It would be nice to level up a tough Salamander Storm Eagle early to give it some EXP.
Gunsmyth
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: A short list of suggested changes

Post by Gunsmyth »

Adding in melta bombs or frag grenades on certain SM or IG units.

More specialist SM character units. Apothecary, Chaplain, Librarian.

Make the Mecharius tanks more appealing to take.

A couple different loadout options for the Titans in game.

Those are just a few things came come to mind that haven't been mentioned in depth already...but more importantly of all:

KEEP THIS GOING!!!

I love the fluff of wh40k and have only been able to enjoy it thru video games and books, and this is one of the best WH40K, or just strait warhammer games I've experienced in a long time.
Bersercker
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Re: A short list of suggested changes

Post by Bersercker »

Mostly agree with the OP. On vehicles and shootas penetration:
2) The damage of multiple weapons on larger vehicles is "compressed". When you get into groupings of four, five, and six heavy bolters or big shootas, they become less useful, relatively. Combined with the small model number of larger vehicle units, you end up with larger vehicles that aren't very good. The "support" heavy bolter is by far the best, and with its 15-20 models (depending on whether it's the SM or Guard one), the unit is vastly better at shooting up infantry than even specialized vehicles like the Leman Russ Punisher or the Baal Predator.
I think it is intended that infantry does more damage but suffer more casualties than vehicles due to armor. Punisher and ball predator could use more armor though. Now that macharius with megabolter has enough armor as to make attacking it with small arms fire a bad idea while dishing our respectable damage. I guess more vehicles should be like it. But not sure if just buffing armor across the board is a good idea... At least withoud other changes.

Currently while playing orks in multiplayer i feel like most untis fall into two categories by armor: either they can be killed by small arms (mostly and shootas, slugas, stormboyz, sometimes mega armored nobz ) or they can't (then tankbustas and arlillery have to be used). Thre rest of the ork untis are either niche or too cost-ineffective. So if we just buff all the armor on vehicles i feel like i would have to use even more bustas and arty spam. Gotta buff some other units anti-vehicle performance too, like these wagons with zapa, big zapa, killkanon etc (currently they cost too much and deal too little damage for them to be usable).

Agreed on giving back the penetration to big shootas, cause currently only basic shootas can effectively deal damage to terminatos, firedrakes etc. while big shootas cant. Not sure bolters need that much penetration and attack though, unless the vehicle armor is buffed. Cause currently they shred skullhammas with ease, only orks gargants and stompas (which suck at damage and cost department) have enough armor to "feel like vehicles" against tactical marines.

Come to think of it i'd like the stas of bolters, lasguns, shootas, and other non-power non-plazma infantry weapons to be like a rifle would be against a tank in ww2 game (didn't play panzer corps, but i doubt that, say, riflemen squad without bazookas dealt much damage to panzer 4 in there :)). But i'm not sure if that would be too significant a change.
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