More on Conforming

[stenic]

Great game last night, Dominate Late Romans (East) smashed the Gauls(Ancient British) by turning the chariots to matchwood with the cataprachts then the legions smashed the wild uncouth savages.

But... At one point in the game, in an ill-advised move, my Auxilia charge some warband. The warband were disrupted and had catapracts to their side so it seemed like a good idea.

The charge was straight ahead and both were lined up flat so it was a head on. But to one side of the warband was another warband unit with its front corner in line with the other warband's front edge, like so

Code: Select all

                           W2
                         W2
                       W2
    W1W1W1W1W1W1     W2
          A1A1A1A1A1A1A1A1

Impact was fine , 2 bases each for W1 & A1, 1 base each for W2 & A1. Assume each pair of letters, ie A1A1, is a base

Question was then in conforming and the melee.

Should A1 try to conform at all to W2 so that in effect the BG get bent ? Or does it stay as is ?

If no conforming, what is the overlap situation ? Can W2 claim an an overlap even though only 1 base is in contact ?

Should A1 step forward on the right and have a second base in contact giving 2 A1 bases in contact with 1 W2 base (so an overlap) ?

We actualy settled on bending the line so in effect 2 seperate combats took place (although A1 counted all the hits for testing of course ... and then got wasted)

Thanks,

Steve

[nikgaukroger]

A1 does not conform and you fight as they stand - the touching bases count in contact and ones either side can be overlaps if eligable.

The following move, if the melee continues, W2 will conform to A1.

[hammy]

If the axuilia could step forwards into contact with W2 then they must do so. This would have the effect of bending your line but you would never bend the line with a conform. If you can't conform you just fight where you are as if you were conformed so in practice in the melee A1 would be on the wrong end of overlaps at each end of the line.

[stenic]

Cheers gents... but not sure if the replies conflict or if you are both looking at different aspects.

The ascii art is of course simplified but to expand the picture a bit, to the right of A1 was a Legion BG parallel to W2.

It was the "ones either side can be overlaps if eligable" that was the trouble. What is eligable ? I need to re-read that bit. Note that 2 bases of A1 would contact a single base of W2. So presumably A1 would have the overlap and fight with 2 bases (plus rear ranks not shown for simplicity) whilst W2 fought with 1 base.

I'm not sure it's cleared up but if I understand the responces correctly:

A1 charges forward and should have stepped forwards on the right so that all bases met W2 (allowing for move distance etc...).

Impact is fought between A1, W1 and W2 (1 base only for A1 & W2 as even though there are 2 of A1 in contact with 1 of W2)

Manoeuvre phase sees W2 conform to A1 but by doing so they will now hit Legion L1 - But not in impact so not a charge ? And I assume W2 would all pivot slightly and step... thus in the go after L1 on the right would have to step.... and so on along the line.

I might take a pic and load it so that we can get a step by step idiot's guide if some one is minded ?

Steve

[hammy]

OK,

Consider this:

Code: Select all

                W2
              W2W2   L1L1
            W2W2   L1L1
W1W1W1W1  W2W2   L1L1
W1W1W1W1  W2   L1L1
     A1A1A1A1A1
     A1A1A1A1A1

A1 has charged, two bases of A1 have contacted two bases of W1 but offset slightly. One base of A1 has contacted W2.

If the angle is shallow enough and the depth of A1 is sufficient then A1 MUST step forwards as long as this is not blocked by the legionaries L1

Code: Select all

                W2
              W2W2   L1L1
            W2W2   L1L1
W1W1W1W1  W2W2   L1L1
W1W1W1W1  W2 A1L1L1
     A1A1A1A1A1
     A1A1A1A1

This wouldmake the impact 4 bases per side.

In the movement phase A1 cannot conform to all it's opponents so does not conform. There is no such thing as a BG conforming partially and a BG cannot split or bend to conform.

In the melee W1 will fight with 6 bases, there are 2 files in contact and the other file will be an overlap. If the gap between W1 and W2 is wide enough to fit an element then W1 could feed more bases into the melee by meeting an existing overlap.

W2 would fight with 2 files in contact and another on the right in our diagram as an overlap.

A1 in this case is 5 files wide and all five files would fight. Two must fight against each of W1 and W2, the other file can choose to fight W1 or W2 unless W1 has been able to feed more bases in which would in effect change the fight to:

A1 6 dice vs W1 8 dice
A2 4 dice vs W2 6 dice

In the warband turn W1 would conform to A1 by sliding sideways but W2 would not be able to conform so would stay fighting offset or at least that is the way I interpret the situation.

[nikgaukroger]

It really is so much easier when pictures are posted

[stenic]

It really is so much easier when pictures are posted

yeah, but there is so much more artistic merit in ascii

Thanks Hammy, that all makes sense. As ever you are a credit to the forums !


Steve.

[hammy]

It really is so much easier when pictures are posted

True but it is slighlty easier to do an ASCII diagram as I don't have to go to the games room, get out the toys, take a photo or three, upload them to the PC, post them on photobucket and then post here

[shall]

Hammy's thesis is spot on...

Cut short

• You conform if you can as a whole BG
  If you can't you stay where you are and fight as if you had done so in number of bases etc.
  Opponents conform if they can at the start oft heir movement phase - if they can they do (it is not an option)
  If they can't either, you will just keep fighting in something looking a bit messy - but the mechanics are set up such tha the battle is little affected by it and conforming is a matter more of tidying up the game

Si

[stenic]

Hammy's thesis is spot on...

Cut short

• You conform if you can as a whole BG
  If you can't you stay where you are and fight as if you had done so in number of bases etc.
  Opponents conform if they can at the start oft heir movement phase - if they can they do (it is not an option)
  If they can't either, you will just keep fighting in something looking a bit messy - but the mechanics are set up such tha the battle is little affected by it and conforming is a matter more of tidying up the game

Si

Excellent

Quick last one on this then. From what you are saying then, in a sticky mess like this overlaps are determined by what the line-up should be like if you could line up. So as Hammy suggests W2 get 2 bases plus an overlap.

That makes sense and fits in with fight where you can and nothing should prevent fighting.

Lesson for me is not to use Auxilia to charge 2 BGs of HF warband even if they are disrupted

Steve

[shall]

yes thats it ........ and err...

Yes thats it too!

Si

[Svejk1914]

It really is so much easier when pictures are posted

True but it is slighlty easier to do an ASCII diagram as I don't have to go to the games room, get out the toys, take a photo or three, upload them to the PC, post them on photobucket and then post here

http://www.vassalengine.org/community/i ... dule_id=31


A little easier than that, though you still need to start the program, take a screenshot and post it to Photobucket