Mid-Republican battleline +Image Test

Mascius · Post by **Mascius** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:56 pm

There doesn't appear to be a specific strategy/tactics sub-board so I'm putting this here.

Below is what I am thinking of for my main battleline deployment. Mid-Republican Roman starter army from the book.

I believe that both the troop commander and the field commander has the entire battleline in range. One can be in melee and the other can provide support if I wanted. The battleline can divide into 2 forces if necessary and each still have a commander.

The velites are screening and can evade past the battleline after drawing out charges from the enemy battleline. Thoughts or suggestions?

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:05 pm

Hmm, it seems that your image test failed

Mascius · Post by **Mascius** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:07 pm

Google Photos was acting weird. Created an account on photobucket just for posting here.

Fugu · Post by **Fugu** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:26 pm

I would leave more space between the Hastalis and the Tiariis so that your skirmishers will be able to fit in between.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:44 pm

I think that works well.

Note on deployment if you will likely want a TC to lead the Velites out on a double move unless something is nasty out there that can catch them before the hastati catch up.

Mascius · Post by **Mascius** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:53 pm

Fugu wrote:I would leave more space between the Hastalis and the Tiariis so that your skirmishers will be able to fit in between.

So something like this, where this is room behind so they don't get stuck in front of the battleline?

On a side note, where does the commander end up in this situation?

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:39 pm

Mascius wrote:
On a side note, where does the commander end up in this situation?

He stays attached to the BG he is with, so just move him as needed to comply. he does not prevent anything nor does he get knocked loose.

Fugu · Post by **Fugu** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:40 pm

Yes to the first, I don't know to the second

neilhammond · Post by **neilhammond** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:43 pm

Are the velites single ranked or double ranked? From your diagram it looks single ranked, but it might be just how you show the velites graphically

Neil

Mascius · Post by **Mascius** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:59 pm

Single ranked.

40mm * 20 mm. All the bases in the pictures are scaled correctly for the unit type. Notice the velite base is half the depth and same width as the commander base.

neilhammond wrote:Are the velites single ranked or double ranked? From your diagram it looks single ranked, but it might be just how you show the velites graphically

Neil

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:00 am

In your first diagram the triarii are not part of the battle line even though they are in the command radius of the commanders. You need to have the triarii flush with the back of the Hastati and Principes if you want the benefit of the double move.

If you move the Velites back through the Hastati and Principes then the triarii will either be moved back to make room or if the velites have enough move the velites will go beyond them.P48

If the velites end up immediately behind the Hastati and Principes then just put the generals on the front of the BG rather than the rear. They are after all just markers not bases.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:18 pm

But in the Rulebook says only: "... at least partial edge to edge contact with another and all facing the same direction" (P30).

Is there a FAQ anywhere for all these questions?

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:30 pm

"A battle line is a collection of battle groups with each in at least partial edge to edge contact with another and all facing in the same direction." Commanders aren't BGs so they can't act as bridges/glue between real BGs trying to form a battleline. So the formation doesn't work as a battle line.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:39 pm

Thanks.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:53 pm

carlos wrote:"A battle line is a collection of battle groups with each in at least partial edge to edge contact with another and all facing in the same direction." Commanders aren't BGs so they can't act as bridges/glue between real BGs trying to form a battleline. So the formation doesn't work as a battle line.

Also in the diagram the right hand Triarii aren't even touching a commander. If it had been drawn with both Triarii glued in place with commanders I would have mentioned the above but as only one was I didn't bother.

You can have the Triarii offset between the front rank BGs but if you want to move as a BL they need to be touching.

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:58 pm

As a tactic, you can move them all together in the first couple of bounds as a BL, and then drop the Triarii back when getting close to the enemy. Everybody's drilled so shouldn't be a problem.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:30 pm

carlos wrote:As a tactic, you can move them all together in the first couple of bounds as a BL, and then drop the Triarii back when getting close to the enemy. Everybody's drilled so shouldn't be a problem.

Absolutely, I quite regularly drop my rear support off a move or so early.

Mascius · Post by **Mascius** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:43 pm

This is helpful, short of being able to actually watch a game played by those who know what they are doing. (Might be nice to see a well documented AAR with the starter armiers. Hint. Hint.)

I was initially visualizing the enemy rushing forth to smash themselves against the shields of my legions. I'm gathering I need to think about moving to the enemy and the second move is important for this as is the location of the commanders.

So... my initial deployment might look this with the aim of bringing the majority of my army forward to meet the enemy.

In later turns, I might bring back the troop commander to the main line and possibly drop back the Triarii. The evading velites being light foot would most likely pass through everything behind but if they didn't pass all the way through they would simply push back the Triarii.

What is the advantage/disadvantage to keeping support unit glued to the back of the main line troops versus pulling them back?

I keep thinking the Triarii would be handy for doing a 90 degree turn and moving to the flank if the enemy tried to flank with horse mounted troops. Is this a common/good use for the support units?

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:51 pm

Mascius wrote:This is helpful, short of being able to actually watch a game played by those who know what they are doing. (Might be nice to see a well documented AAR with the starter armiers. Hint. Hint.)

I have considered doing one.

I was initially visualizing the enemy rushing forth to smash themselves against the shields of my legions. I'm gathering I need to think about moving to the enemy and the second move is important for this as is the location of the commanders.

So... my initial deployment might look this with the aim of bringing the majority of my army forward to meet the enemy.

Looks very reasonable to me

In later turns, I might bring back the troop commander to the main line and possibly drop back the Triarii. The evading velites being light foot would most likely pass through everything behind but if they didn't pass all the way through they would simply push back the Triarii.

Correct

What is the advantage/disadvantage to keeping support unit glued to the back of the main line troops versus pulling them back?

If you have the Triarii within 3 MU then if one of the front line BG's breaks you have to take a CT. Triarii should pass but....

I keep thinking the Triarii would be handy for doing a 90 degree turn and moving to the flank if the enemy tried to flank with horse mounted troops. Is this a common/good use for the support units?

It is a very handy use of them and if you are a bit further back you can turn 90 then wheel back towards the troops you are supporting and you may even be able to provide some rear support while staring down the cavalry.

neilhammond · Post by **neilhammond** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:14 pm

Your velites, one rank deep, will do fine in screening the legionaries from shooting, but won't be able to do any real damange to opposing skirmishers one rank deep, and certainly won't be able to chase off enemy skirmishers.

In one sense this sounds realistic - with velites not being terribly effective early on - but if you want to use them more effectively then you'll have to double rank them and possibly support them with additional LF.

Neil