Early Imperial Romans vs Germans (again)

[Niceas]

650 pts.

Romans:
1 FC, 2 TC
6 BGs of Legionnaires: ea 4 stands, HF Armored, Superior, drilled, impact foot, skilled swordsmen
3 BGs of Auxilia: ea 4 stands, MF, armored, average, drilled, light spear, swordsmen
2 BGs of Equites Alares: ea 4 stands, cav, armored, average, drilled, light spear, swordsmen
1 BG of Equites Mauri: 4 stands, LF, unprotected, average, undrilled, javelin
1 BG of auxiliary archers, 6 stands, LF, protected, averaged, drilled, bow
1 BG of slingers, 4 stands, LF, unprotected, average, undrilled, sling.
Fortified Camp.

Germans:
1 FC, 2 TC
1 BG of Noble cavalry, cav, protected, average, undrilled, light spear, swordsmen
2 BGs of juvenile skirmisers, ea 6 stands, LF, unprotected, average, undrilled, javelins
1 BG of archers, 8 stands, LF, unprotected, average, undrilled, bow
4 BGs of warriors, 8-10 stands each, HF, protected, average, undrilled, impact foot, swordsmen
1 BG of warriors MF, 8 stands, protected, average undrilled, impact foot, swordsmen
unfortified camp

Romans lost initiative, terrain was agricultural, with a steep wooded hill in middle of the Roman long table edge, a wood in the middle of the German long table edge, an open field in the German left flank, an enclosed field in the Roman right flank, an open field in the Roman left flank, and a plantation also in the Roman left, but closer to the center of the board.
(4x8 btw, for 25mm figures)

Romans deployed the legionnaires in a battle line, 4 BGs up, 2BGs in a second line, with 2 BGs of auxilia at either end. The Roman right got all the Roman cavalry, with the moors on the end of the flank, the last BG of auxilia, and the archers. The left was covered by the slingers.

The Germans had 2 BG's in a first line, 2 in a second line, their cavalry and some javelin skirmishers on their left, their medium foot and the rest of the skirmishers on their right, with the archers partially covering the German front.

The Roman battle line advanced on the Germans, accompanied by a push forward by the Roman right. The Equites charged the German warband in front of them, but this proved to be a very bad idea, as the warband broke one of the cav BGs and the other broke off. The Roman subgeneral chasing the fugitives and finally catching and rallying them before they ran off the board. The roman auxilia, archers and moorish light cav continued up the right flank eventually being stopped by the German cav and skirmishers. (in what amounted to a staring contest). The roman archers retired to harrass the German warband following up on the Roman cavarly.

The Germans tried a turning movement on their right, which was countered by the left flank Roman auxilia which was broken by casualties by the MF warband, and skirmishers requiring the intervention of the second line legionary BG which broke the MF and the skirmishers who were then chased to destruction by the slingers.

The Roman center slam danced with the rest of the front line of the Germans, where the right end auxilia were broken by casualties, but the legionnaires inturn broke the warband through casualties. The second line Germans came up but were stopped Roman legionnaires, who fragmented them the same turn that continued flanking harrassing archer fire disrupted and then fragmented the left forward German battle group.

Some Roman legionnaires who rashly chased the skirmishing German archers into a wood were nearly broken by the archers rolling really big dice.

However the combination of fragmented and lost BG's broke the German army at this point.

Roman auxilia in 4 stand BG's are very fragile. I'm beginning to think that the Legionnaires in 4 stand BG's are almost as fragile.

Archery continues to surprise, disrupting and even fragmenting BG's at the most in opportune times.

4 stand BGs of javelin armed LH appear to be useless for trying to inflict enough hits to cause cohesion tests. It looks like they need to larger to try that.

All in all, a closer game than it looked, the German turning movement only being stopped by bad dice on the German side, and good dice on the Roman.

[stecal]

Provided by the miracle of really bad MS Paint graphics we have battle schematics! (Bob does the writing thing -- I'll stick to graphics & photos)

Deployment:


Brown squares are open or enclosed fields, Light green woods. My LF in ambush in enclosed fields

Mid game:

Roman Cav charges steady German HF and breaks off & routs, German MF on right crushes Auxila, but is in turn broken by Legionaries and charges in rear by slingers.

End game:

German HF suffers dreadfully from Superior Roman Legionaries and breaks. Importantly the German FC dies! 2nd line of German HF deperately tries to redeploy to the right (yeah, right undrilled troops moving 3"...), German right routs and is pursued but due to woods it has little effect on rest of battle, German cav delays on the left.

[stecal]

Germans 619 AP:
1 FC, 2 TC (Should have upgraded to a 2nd FC or even an IC with leftover points)
1 BG of 4 Noble cavalry, cav, protected, average, undrilled, light spear, swordsmen
2 BGs of juvenile skirmisers, ea 6 stands, LF, unprotected, average, undrilled, javelins
1 BG of archers, 8 stands, LF, unprotected, average, undrilled, bow
3 BGs of warriors, 10 stands each, HF, protected, average, undrilled, impact foot, swordsmen
2 BGs of warriors, 8 stands each, HF, protected, average, undrilled, impact foot, swordsmen (2nd line)
1 BG of warriors MF, 8 stands, protected, average undrilled, impact foot, swordsmen
unfortified camp

My biggest mistake was shifting the 2nd line Warbands so far left (due to the camp) I found with the 1" MU and the general dead that it was nearly impossible to redeploy these to back up the WB facing the legionaires.

I am finding it hard to get more than 10-12 BG with Barbarian hordes as they are limited to BG of 8-12 strong. Makes them rather fragile when things start to go south.

[Niceas]

Oh yes, I forgot that Hermann got a gladius in the guts.

That did shut down your center.

The more I think about it, the more I think the Roman infantry units need to be bigger.

Oh, and neat maps!

[Seldon]

very nice battle report !!!

congrats.

seldon

[domblas]

slingers charge to the rear???
i red it is impossible
or am i wrong?

[Niceas]

slingers charge to the rear???
i red it is impossible
or am i wrong?

The rear was disrupted (I think) MF in an orchard (plantation). From page 60 in the rules, it looked possible to us.

[hammy]

slingers charge to the rear???
i red it is impossible
or am i wrong?

The rear was disrupted (I think) MF in an orchard (plantation). From page 60 in the rules, it looked possible to us.

LF can charge MF (or any other troops) in terrain. They don't cause an automatic cohesion loss and may well not win once they get there but will put a - POA on their opponent for fighting in two directions. It does give some extra dice and may tip the ballance.

[Niceas]

slingers charge to the rear???
i red it is impossible
or am i wrong?

The rear was disrupted (I think) MF in an orchard (plantation). From page 60 in the rules, it looked possible to us.

LF can charge MF (or any other troops) in terrain. They don't cause an automatic cohesion loss and may well not win once they get there but will put a - POA on their opponent for fighting in two directions. It does give some extra dice and may tip the ballance.

That was my thinking. I didn't think that the slingers were really going to hurt anybody. As I remember, I think they still needed 5's to hit.

They did have fun chasing the routers, though.

[Maxshadow]

Great report thanks! Also instructive. Hope you do one for your next game too.

[Paint_In]

Germans 619 AP:
1 FC, 2 TC (Should have upgraded to a 2nd FC or even an IC with leftover points)
1 BG of 4 Noble cavalry, cav, protected, average, undrilled, light spear, swordsmen
2 BGs of juvenile skirmisers, ea 6 stands, LF, unprotected, average, undrilled, javelins
1 BG of archers, 8 stands, LF, unprotected, average, undrilled, bow
3 BGs of warriors, 10 stands each, HF, protected, average, undrilled, impact foot, swordsmen
2 BGs of warriors, 8 stands each, HF, protected, average, undrilled, impact foot, swordsmen (2nd line)
1 BG of warriors MF, 8 stands, protected, average undrilled, impact foot, swordsmen
unfortified camp

My biggest mistake was shifting the 2nd line Warbands so far left (due to the camp) I found with the 1" MU and the general dead that it was nearly impossible to redeploy these to back up the WB facing the legionaires.

I am finding it hard to get more than 10-12 BG with Barbarian hordes as they are limited to BG of 8-12 strong. Makes them rather fragile when things start to go south.

He Steven,

Why dont you go for 4x12 ?
That way you will not be inclined to put WB's in more than 1 line.
They were not intended as higly maneuvre types, but more the go straight ahead and smash them sort.
So basically get them into position using your support troops and charge for hell or glory.
Not much maneuvring needed I would say
If you really want to have a 2nd line it might be better to use some cavalry.
That way you have some reserve maneuvre ability if things go south.

René

[stecal]

10 strong Av. BG is more efficient than 12 as they both have a Break point of 5.

My maneuvering was mostly due to the Roman setup wrong footing me. Not much I can do here as drilled troops will always out maneuver undrilled.

I have considered a 2nd line of cav, but you run into the problem that the cav BG are not big enough to give rear support to large BG to their front and certainly not multiple ones. More HF in the 2nd line seems to work just fine.

[Kineas1]

Your paint diagrams are so good, I ripped you of for my battle report...

Hmmm... and you taught me to paint and do research. Calahan, you have a lot to answer for....

[stecal]

Thats OK. I blame you for introducing me to my first miniatures game! TSR Chainmail as I recall, but might have been Gush's Renaissance rules. I went to college to be an Engineer and ended up in history. I had prospects I tell ya!

[Niceas]

Thats OK. I blame you for introducing me to my first miniatures game! TSR Chainmail as I recall, but might have been Gush's Renaissance rules. I went to college to be an Engineer and ended up in history. I had prospects I tell ya!

It was Gush. I remember. I was going to be an engineer too. Damn you Cameron, you have so much to answer for!

[Kineas1]

Heh.