visibility from inside of terrain

[Seldon]

the rules are clear when it comes to defining visibility to observe troops hiding in terrain.

what happens with visibility for the troops that are inside of terrain ? for example, can troops inside woods see outside, do they need to be withinn X MUs from the edge, etc.. ?

thanks

seldon

[neilhammond]

the rules are clear when it comes to defining visibility to observe troops hiding in terrain.

what happens with visibility for the troops that are inside of terrain ? for example, can troops inside woods see outside, do they need to be withinn X MUs from the edge, etc.. ?

thanks

seldon

p132 "Terrain blocks line of sight beyond the visibility distances specified..." So they need to be within X MUs of the edge to see out, unless otherwise stated (e.g. for gullies - p131).

Of course, if the troops in the terrain can see, then then can shoot, in which case the become visible anyway.

[Seldon]

excellent ! thank you very much, I looked and looked but couldn't find it...

[Seldon]

So I went back and re read it, but now I am not sure about how to apply it.

For example light foot inside brush can only be seen from 4MU, but other infantry is just seen no matter the range so then applying the rule literally then light foot could only see outside of brush 4MU but heavy foot could simply see !

Not sure how this rule is applied since the visibility range in terrain depends on the troop type inside the terrain and could generate strange situations like the one above.

thanks

seldon

[neilhammond]

So I went back and re read it, but now I am not sure about how to apply it.

For example light foot inside brush can only be seen from 4MU, but other infantry is just seen no matter the range so then applying the rule literally then light foot could only see outside of brush 4MU but heavy foot could simply see !

Not sure how this rule is applied since the visibility range in terrain depends on the troop type inside the terrain and could generate strange situations like the one above.

thanks

seldon

In practice it's not a problem. If LF are beyond 4MUs in a brush they aren't visible so can't be shot at. However, the LF can shoot - but once they do so they reveal themselves. The LF themselves can see out.

It's relevent if 2 LF bow units are in a brush at, say, 5MUs apart - then they can't shoot at each other. But if one is LF bow and the other is MF bow, the MF bow is visible and can be shot at by the LF, in which case the LF become visible and can be shot at. It useful, however, if you're LF jav or slingers - it stops you being picked off by long range foot bow shot.

[nigelb]

For the LF in brush aspect, this is just another case where the rules need careful reading. Page 132, Visibility Effects, clearly says:
"In some cases light foot can see out but not be seen". this specifically covers the case of LF in Brush.

However, there is room for some confusion where the same paragraph also says:
"Terrain blocks line of sight beyond the visibility distances specified above".
I would take that to mean that where the terrain rules say, for instance "Troops wholly inside are only visible within 2 MU", they can themselves only see 2 MU within a Forest, and can only be seen from 2MU away, whether the sighters are inside or outside the Forest; but can they see the whole table if they are within 2MU of the edge? Some may think there is room for doubt on simple reading of the rules, due to the "...blocks line of sight..." bit, so let's consider the real world...

Troops are hiding just inside a wood's edge. They are in shadow. Troops outside, in the full light, will not be able to see them clearly from more than a short distance (i.e beyond 2MU) - but if the concealed troops can see the edge of the wood, they can see further, as troops outside are well lit. It's the shadow and trees that restrict the visibility, not simply the distance. Distance only has an effect when you consider the presence of trees as an obstruction - and you can see between them when you are close to them (the troops looking out), but not so easily when you are further from them (the troops looking in).

So - looking into or within, follow the visibility limit as a total distance; looking out, if within the visibility limit of the edge, I would say you can see clearly beyond.

Any author want to correct me?