Common Mistakes! Newbies start here :)

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miffedofreading
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Common Mistakes! Newbies start here :)

Post by miffedofreading »

Hi all,

I would like to start what I bellieve could be a very valuable thread. Listing all the things that are clearly in the rules but nevertheless we read them wrongly. The point of this thread is to help newbies avoid some obvious mistakes.

My claim to expertise in starting this thread is that I have made a lot of mistakes :lol:

I have been reposting this at the end of the list every time it changes. I will now stop doing this and only edit the first post from now on for brevity sake.

Andy



Shooting POA against light horse is normally 0. The rules say ++ against unprotected cavalry. This can be misread to mean man on horse it does not. As such Light Horse are excluded.

A HF BG has one of it's bases in rough ground and the rest is in the open. When they fight they fight disordered. NO! Only the base that is in the rough ground fight disordered the rest are fine. Rules state it quite clearly but because I am now used to thinking in terms of units I ASSUME the whole unit is disordered.

LF can only charge non skirmishers in terrain, not in the open

LH despite being able to charge the flank of a non skirmisher BG without a CMT cannot intercept the charge of a non skirmisher BG even from the flank

Dice for shooting is resolved by target not by shooting BG so two BGs of 6 MF archers at effective range are just as effective as three BGs of 4

Troops can be bolstered when within 6 MU of the enemy

Support shooting at impact must be from archers in the same BG not a second BG providing support

Skirmishers never provide rear support

You do an immediate rout in any phase, followed by another rout in the JAP. (2 rout moves only on 1st turn a unit is routed)

Also the error of using a VMD for routers with no enemy in contact in the JAP, or chargers whose target does not evade, seems to crop up from time to time.

The third and higher ranks of a BG in melee can be shot at, as can any rank so long as they are not fighting either directly or as an overlap.

Multiple unit combats are worked out BG by BG.
So a BG takes a Cohesion test if it suffered more hits than it inflicted , the overall number of hits makes no difference.

A difficult advance is not the same thing as a complex move. Some advances are harder than others and are classes as difficult but a difficult advance only required a CMT for other undrilled troops.

A general with a BG only raises its quality for close combat. The general does not raise the BG quality in other phases such as shooting or in the joint action phase.
Also the quality is raised only for "to hit" dice, not cohesion test dice. You already get + on cohesion dice if a commander is with the BG (for close combat).

Rear support is your friend. You need to have at least 50% the number of stands in the support group as the BG you are supporting and to count as support these bases must be behind at least partially behind the 'supported' BG.

Also, you can support 2 BGs by stacking the 'supporters' in a column that stay between those 2 BGs.

If the only rank shooting is the second rank it shoots at full effect. The rules specify the first shooting rank not the first rank.

Remember when calculating >=1 HP2B for shooting (or HP3B for close combat) Pikes or others in 4 ranks only count the first 3 ranks. So an 8 base pike unit only counts as a 6 base unit.

Remember BREAK OFFS in the JAP. If mounted (not elephants) charge foot and do not disrupt them in the Impact or Melee phase then you break off. I keep forgetting this one

2 base BG’s such as elephants and Triarii auto break if they drop to 1 base (Same as all other BG’s there are no exceptions)

Pursuit/Rout a router loses one base per pursuer in contact EVERY rout move there is a pursuer still in contact, thus in the first turn a unit is routed it could lose 2 bases (per pursuer) as in this turn only there are 2 rout moves.

Elephants are NOT shock troops

Disrupted non shock BG’s (inc elephants) must pass a CMT to charge anything

When feeding bases into an existing melee, you may move bases in the first turns fighting after the initial impact phase and before the first melee phase. You may not move bases that are already in position to fight as an overlap in the forthcoming melee phase

Neither chargers or evaders (even horse archers) can fire in the shooting phase of the current turn.

Shooters can fire forwards, LH and light chariots can fire backwards but only battle wagons can fire through the side are of a base

Commanders who fought in the front rank do not have to roll to risk being killed unless their BG suffered at least 2 hits in close combat.

If a BG of Pikes or spears, which receive bonus's for extra ranks, lose a base to a death roll does the whole unit or none of the unit lose this rank bonus? POA's are calculated by file/column not by unit, so only files that had actually lost a base would lose the rank bonus.

Probably a general catch all to say that not all troops on horses are cavalry. All troops on horses are mounted but ar split into light horse, cavalry, cataphracts and knights. Where the rules mention cavalry they mean just that.

Republican romans MUST take a fortified camp at 24 points.

Mounted light spear only count a + POA if without it the result would have been no net POA to either side

Even if you meet all other criteria you do not count as charging an opponent in the flank if the chargers start within an inch of the target and include a wheel in their movement. I have completely missed this one and it is of course quite common.
Last edited by miffedofreading on Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
hammy
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Post by hammy »

LF can only charge non skirmishers in terrain, not in the open

LH despite being able to charge the flank of a non skirmisher BG without a CMT cannot intercept the charge of a non skirmisher BG even from the flank

Dice for shooting is resolved by target not by shooting BG so two BGs of 6 MF archers at effective range are just as effective as three BGs of 4

Troops can be bolstered when within 6 MU of the enemy

Support shooting at impact must be from archers in the same BG not a second BG providing support

Skirmishers never provide rear support
lawrenceg
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Post by lawrenceg »

I recently watched a pair of beginners' 2nd game and found that they did not realise that you do an immediate rout in any phase, followed by another rout in the JAP.

Also the error of using a VMD for routers with no enemy in contact in the JAP, or chargers whose target does not evade, seems to crop up from time to time.
Lawrence Greaves
mikekh
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Post by mikekh »

The third and higher ranks of a BG in melee can be shot at.
miffedofreading
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Post by miffedofreading »

mikekh wrote:The third and higher ranks of a BG in melee can be shot at.
I thought you could shoot at any base in melee as long as you applied the -1 modifier?


""Dice for shooting is resolved by target not by shooting BG so two BGs of 6 MF archers at effective range are just as effective as three BGs of 4 "" - I did not know that myself 8)
hammy
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Post by hammy »

miffedofreading wrote:
mikekh wrote:The third and higher ranks of a BG in melee can be shot at.
I thought you could shoot at any base in melee as long as you applied the -1 modifier?


""Dice for shooting is resolved by target not by shooting BG so two BGs of 6 MF archers at effective range are just as effective as three BGs of 4 "" - I did not know that myself 8)
Nope, only third and subsequent or files not fighting in overlap.
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Post by hood_mick »

You can shoot at a second rank if it is not in a position to fight. For instance knights.
sgtsteiner
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Post by sgtsteiner »

Hi
hammy wrote:LF can only charge non skirmishers in terrain, not in the open
I am sure I have done this wrongly a couple of times onto enemy flanks !! :oops:
"Merry it was to laugh there-where death becomes absurd and life absurder. For power was on us as we slashed bones bare. Not to feel sickness or remorse of murder." Wilfred Owen
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Post by Keith »

Multiple unit combats are worked out BG by BG.
So a BG takes a Cohesion test if it suffered more hits than it inflicted , the overall number of hits makes no difference.
(This is a hang up from my Warmaster ancients gaming)


Good thread , hopefully we can compile the mistakes into a newbie FAQ thingy ?
Would be handy.
miffedofreading
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Post by miffedofreading »

I hope so,

Give it a couple of days for others to add their newby mistakes. I have already learnt a couple of things on here and I have played a fair few games now. A real newb must be almost guranteed to make a few mistakes.

If no one else competent volunteers to turn into a newb FAQ type document I will do one 8)
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Post by hammy »

A difficult advance is not the same thing as a complex move. Some advances are harder than others and are classes as difficult but a difficult advance only required a CMT for other undrilled troops.
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Post by rossco »

Lawrence has noted some of my newbie mistakes. :)

Here is another one: a general with a BG only raises its quality for close combat. The general does not raise the BG quality in other phases such as shooting or in the joint action phase.
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Post by Montagu »

Rear support is your friend. You need to have at least 50% the number of stands in the support group as the BG you are supporting and to count as support these bases must be behind at least partially behind the 'supported' BG.

Also, you can support 2 BGs by stacking the 'supporters' in a column that stay between those 2 BGs.

Monty
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Post by hammy »

If the only rank shooting is the second rank it shoots at full effect. The rules specify the first shooting rank not the first rank.
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Post by rbodleyscott »

hammy wrote:If the only rank shooting is the second rank it shoots at full effect. The rules specify the first shooting rank not the first rank.
A common newbie error, it is true. However, it is explained very clearly at the top of page 91, and even has an example.
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Post by hammy »

rbodleyscott wrote:
hammy wrote:If the only rank shooting is the second rank it shoots at full effect. The rules specify the first shooting rank not the first rank.
A common newbie error, it is true. However, it is explained very clearly at the top of page 91, and even has an example.
I realise that but the purpose of this thread is to highlight places where people simply just don't read the rules. It really does not need to be in the FAQ as the rules are crystal clear but several posters have seemed to miss this one.
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Post by lawrenceg »

rossco wrote:Lawrence has noted some of my newbie mistakes. :)

Here is another one: a general with a BG only raises its quality for close combat. The general does not raise the BG quality in other phases such as shooting or in the joint action phase.
Also the quality is raised only for "to hit" dice, not cohesion test dice. You already get + on cohesion dice if a commander is with the BG (for close combat).
Lawrence Greaves
miffedofreading
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Post by miffedofreading »

Dear all,
This is my summary of the suggesstions already made plus a few more I have remembered. I urge you to keep this thread going with new suggestions. We have almost a printed page and a half of ideas so far. I would love to see the best 2 pages made available for newbies as a way of shortcutting some of the more obvious mistakes in their first few games.

Andy




Shooting POA against light horse is normally 0. The rules say ++ against unprotected cavalry. This can be misread to mean man on horse it does not. As such Light Horse are excluded.

A HF BG has one of it's bases in rough ground and the rest is in the open. When they fight they fight disordered. NO! Only the base that is in the rough ground fight disordered the rest are fine. Rules state it quite clearly but because I am now used to thinking in terms of units I ASSUME the whole unit is disordered.

LF can only charge non skirmishers in terrain, not in the open

LH despite being able to charge the flank of a non skirmisher BG without a CMT cannot intercept the charge of a non skirmisher BG even from the flank

Dice for shooting is resolved by target not by shooting BG so two BGs of 6 MF archers at effective range are just as effective as three BGs of 4

Troops can be bolstered when within 6 MU of the enemy

Support shooting at impact must be from archers in the same BG not a second BG providing support

Skirmishers never provide rear support

You do an immediate rout in any phase, followed by another rout in the JAP. (2 rout moves only on 1st turn a unit is routed)

Also the error of using a VMD for routers with no enemy in contact in the JAP, or chargers whose target does not evade, seems to crop up from time to time.

The third and higher ranks of a BG in melee can be shot at.

Multiple unit combats are worked out BG by BG.
So a BG takes a Cohesion test if it suffered more hits than it inflicted , the overall number of hits makes no difference.

A difficult advance is not the same thing as a complex move. Some advances are harder than others and are classes as difficult but a difficult advance only required a CMT for other undrilled troops.

A general with a BG only raises its quality for close combat. The general does not raise the BG quality in other phases such as shooting or in the joint action phase.
Also the quality is raised only for "to hit" dice, not cohesion test dice. You already get + on cohesion dice if a commander is with the BG (for close combat).

Rear support is your friend. You need to have at least 50% the number of stands in the support group as the BG you are supporting and to count as support these bases must be behind at least partially behind the 'supported' BG.

Also, you can support 2 BGs by stacking the 'supporters' in a column that stay between those 2 BGs.

If the only rank shooting is the second rank it shoots at full effect. The rules specify the first shooting rank not the first rank.

Remember when calculating >=1 HP2B for shooting (or HP3B for close combat) Pikes or others in 4 ranks only count the first 3 ranks. So an 8 base pike unit only counts as a 6 base unit.

Remember BREAK OFFS in the JAP. If mounted (not elephants) charge foot and do not disrupt them in the Impact or Melee phase then you break off. I keep forgetting this one 

2 base BG’s such as elephants and Triarii auto break if they drop to 1 base (Same as all other BG’s there are no exceptions)

Pursuit/Rout a routers base is lost EVERY rout move there is a pursuer still in contact, thus in the first turn a unit is routed it could lose 2 bases as in this turn only there are 2 rout moves.

Elephants are NOT shock troops

Disrupted non shock BG’s (inc elephants) must pass a CMT to charge anything

When feeding bases into an existing melee, you may move bases in the first turns fighting after the initial impact phase and before the first melee phase. You may not move bases that are already in position to fight as an overlap in the forthcoming melee phase

Neither chargers or evaders (even horse archers) can fire in the shooting phase of the current turn.

Shooters can fire forwards, and some skirmishers can fire backwards but no troops can fire through the side are of a base

Commanders who fought in the front rank do not have to roll to risk being killed unless their BG suffered at least 2 hits in close combat.
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Post by pbrandon »

Your penultimate entry about shooting:

Battle wagons shoot from their sides (long edges) only.

Paul
miffedofreading
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Post by miffedofreading »

Thanks Paul, never used battle wagons, i will change the wording to exclude them
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