Belisarian Byzantines

[zonk]

Curious about them.

I assume the Bukellari will be drilled, armoured, superior, bow*/lance/sword up to 12?

but what about the line cavalry? drilled, armoured/protected, average/superior?, bow/sword or 1/2 bow/sword and 1/2 lance/sword? 12 to 24?

The infantry? drilled, protected/armoured, poor/average, lt spear/sword with LF archers in support? none to many? Belisarius took none of his infantry with him on his advance to Carthage. Just the cavalry and the allied Huns.

Archers, MF, drilled, unprotected, poor/average, bow - under FoG I would think average would be bad enough. unprotected bow only are poor troops but I don't know how you feel about these things. also in the none to many category.

Gepids/Goths/Lombards etc undrilled, armoured, superior, lance/sword up to 12? 16?

will there be mercenary Huns or only allied Huns? Both?

--
zonk

[willb]

i would like to find out about this army also. it is six months until the book is available.

[sgtsteiner]

Hi

For info Richard had this to say about Byzantines in my Avars thread:

The Byzantines are treated as mixed BGs, half lance, sword and half bow, sword. This makes them shock troops, forcing them to CMT not to charge, and significantly reduces their shooting capability. They are mostly Average, whereas Avars and Sassanids are Superior).

I have of course several other queries ref pre-Thematic Byz armies

Ref Lt Horse type Byzantines (Defensores/Guards etc) how will these be depicted in FOG ?
BGs of 0-4 LH Prot/Unprot Drilled Bow, or Lance (?) and possibly Sword Avg ?
Whilst Dbmm allows single elements to be interspersed between Kavalorii blocks this is bit harder to acheive in FOG will 1 or 2 BGs be an abstraction of the effect of the numerous small LH contingents of the Strategikon ?

Will any Byzantines of this period (Belisarian or Maurikian) be Bow* or all 1/2 Lance/Swd 1/2 Bw/Swd as above ?

Ref Skutatoi from this period will they be Def/Off Sprs or more like Late Legionaries ie Impact Foot/Swds I cant see them being better than Avg quality ?
I assume they may be 2/3 Def/Spr with 1/3 LF Bow as well ?

Sorry a lot of queries but I am keen to try out my Cavalry based armies as change of pace to Rise Of Rome HF slogs.

Interesting to have 'shock' Byzantines vs Bow Sassanids.................oh I feel a playtest coming on

Cheers

[willb]

seems strange that richard would say that about the early byzantines. the Bukellari are described as armed with lance and bow instead of a mix of lancers and archers.

[rbodleyscott]

seems strange that richard would say that about the early byzantines. the Bukellari are described as armed with lance and bow instead of a mix of lancers and archers.

Well in fact I didn't say it about the early Byzantine, I was talking about Maurikians & Thematics.

However, Early Byzantine bucellarii are indeed classified as Superior Cavalry 1/2 lancers, 1/2 bowmen. The rationale is as follows. (I quote from the book):

"While bucellarii may or may not all have been double armed with lance and bow, the slightly later Byzantines found it impossible to train all the men in a unit up to the same standard with both weapons. Thus, whether or not all have both weapons, the front rank base is treated as lancers and the back rank base as archers."

(Latin spelling used in Early Byzantine list because Greek had not yet taken over officially).

This is based on the Strategikon. Although this was written slightly later, the fundamental constraints affecting troop training are unlikely to have changed. We don't treat them as Bow*, Lancers, Swordsmen because this is reserved for units known to have fought in shallower formations with some ranks lance armed and some bow armed, such as later Byzantine tagmatic units.

Moreover, as Byzantine cavalry tactics as described in the Strategikon at the end of the 6th century involved charging as soon as in bow range, front ranks with levelled lances and rear ranks shooting overhead, (despite, once again, all ranks theoretically being equipped with lance and bow) it is unlikely that the similarly equipped bucellarii in the mid-6th century fought differently. Representing the battle groups as 1/2 lancers 1/2 bowmen makes them behave exactly as the Strategikon describes. As per usual FOG policy, getting troop behaviour right over-rides the equipment actually or theoretically carried.

The ordinary Early Byzantine cavalry are Average Cavalry, Bow, Swordsmen

The legions/auxilia are light spear, swordsmen - the same as those in the preceding Foederate Roman list - and all HF with LF archer support. They evolve into DSp Skoutatoi in the Maurikian list.

[willb]

thanks, richard. now i have enough information on the various troop types to be able to field my early byzantines and can fine tune the numbers when the book is published.