Number and Quality of Generals

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:08 pm

Was wondering if people had ideas on numbers and qualities of generals. Let's assume 800AP games.

A lot seems to depend on how much you plan to "break up" your army.

If you have a fairly cohesive army (phalanx plus two wings) then something like IC, 2xTC makes more sense and you can get maximum benefit from IC.

But if you have an army that is going to break up into smaller pieces I am not sure an IC is worth it (leaving aside initiative issues).

One I struggle with is why and when should I take say FC, 3xTC instead of 4xTC?

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:36 pm

As far as I can tell I'm more likely to add a IC to armies of mixed quality, especially if containing undrilled troops. Such armies not only profit most from the direct effect but also find it useful to win the initiative, allowing them a better chance to aim their less manoeuvrable troops at the right targets. High Quality drilled troops are expensive enough without an IC and don't seem to need him, so I'm inclined to field my Romans with just 4 TCs. Especially since I found I like to move 1st with them.
I would only use a FC if the army I'm using is likely to make flank marches. So far I haven't be tempted much, but then their are few regular mounted armies around so far. Mongols and their ilk might tempt me to try falnk marches much more then armies based on Legionaries or Knights. Of course the FC would not be the C-in-C then.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:36 pm

Maybe I haven't played enough but I'm struggling to see the use of FCs at all to be honest

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:39 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:Maybe I haven't played enough but I'm struggling to see the use of FCs at all to be honest

I agree, part of the reason for the question.

It would have to be when you need the 8MU command range. Maybe you could try to really economize on generals with an FC,2xTC set up with a pretty large center command by the FC.

Also, if you have an exceptionally large ally an FC allied comamnder?

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:02 pm

ethan wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:Maybe I haven't played enough but I'm struggling to see the use of FCs at all to be honest
I agree, part of the reason for the question.

It would have to be when you need the 8MU command range. Maybe you could try to really economize on generals with an FC,2xTC set up with a pretty large center command by the FC.

Also, if you have an exceptionally large ally an FC allied comamnder?

Or have an FC as a sub commander to lead an outflanking march....

I have used FC's and there is benefit to the extra command radius and initiative bonus.

I am also quite a fan of 4 TCs as well.

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:33 pm

At this point I am assuming that the value of an FC is for flank marches. I do not have my rulebook in front of me; can one use a TC as CinC and an FC as a sub, if one is planning to FM? That may be a waste of a useful initiative modifier, though.

Marc

rtaylor · Post by **rtaylor** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:00 pm

I have gotten some benefit from an FC when my TCs were fighting in the front rank and there was no one else in range to modify CMTs or CTs.

babyshark wrote:At this point I am assuming that the value of an FC is for flank marches. I do not have my rulebook in front of me; can one use a TC as CinC and an FC as a sub, if one is planning to FM? That may be a waste of a useful initiative modifier, though.

Marc

As far as I know, the "best" commander is the CinC, so if you want to flank march with an FC then you must have two FCs (or IC+FC) because the CinC can't flank march.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:05 pm

No need for the C-in-C to be the "best" commander as far as I am aware. You could have a TC C-in-C and a FC sub-commander I believe.

shall · Post by **shall** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:29 pm

Maybe I haven't played enough but I'm struggling to see the use of FCs at all to be honest

Well worth points to enable 2 large BLs to advance. The 8 MU range can allow 5 BGs to be put together, when a TC is often limited to 3 if they are wide.

So had them in with my Greek design as its a cheap way to make 5 BGs plod directly ahead.

Also very handy behind if you face a big missile army. You will need many more CTs on the way in and the 8MU range really helps. there aren't many of those in the books yet but it will grow if you face Persians, Samurai, etc.

Also useful for mass skirmish armies if put with the skirmishers - the distances tend to grow so the 8MU is quite handy.

Also useful for flank marching.

That said my most common generals are

IC + 2 TCs and 4 TCs, about 80%
then FC + 3 TCs for a few, 15%
and 2FCs and 2 TCs in 1

Si

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:43 pm

shall wrote:Also very handy behind if you face a big missile army. You will need many more CTs on the way in and the 8MU range really helps. there aren't many of those in the books yet but it will grow if you face Persians, Samurai, etc.

That is an excellent point, well worth considering.

Marc

Luddite · Post by **Luddite** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:03 pm

So far, we've come to the conclusion that 4x TC will do just fine at 1000pts.

I'm sure experience will inform that opinion further but so far, we've found having the 4 spread out and mobile covers most of what you need your commanders to do fairly well.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:20 pm

A FC increases the chances of a flank marching arriving from 1/6 to approx 1/4, so can be of great benefit. Haven't really thought of a use for FC's other than if I plan to flank march. Can normally find better uses for 15 points...

An IC is exceptionally useful when advancing towards massed shooting as the +2 on the CT is invaluable, as well as the 12" range, combined with rear support and big BattleGroups is superb.

I really thnk four generals is a must, normally going for an IC with 3 TC's. Some armies use 4 TC's though (normally use these with armies that have lot's of superior troops though!)

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:06 pm

I have got into the habit of starting with 1 IC plus 2 TC with the first draft of an army, then modify with experience. Not least as the generals used are interrelated with how you want to play and structure the army.

Rgds,
Peter

miffedofreading · Post by **miffedofreading** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:14 pm

I think 4 generals is essential if you can manage it. I try and get 1XIC and 3XTC can't see the point of FC's at all. If I could not afford the IC then I would just go for 4XTC's

terrys · Post by **terrys** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:34 pm

I always allocate at least an FC to each player in a doubles army.
This is just a personal decision, and not one enforced by the rules.

Of course competition organisers could choose to enforce it if they wish ....

Unclemeat · Post by **Unclemeat** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:13 pm

If you plan an army with 4xTC or an IC/FC with 2xTC do most folks drop a general back for rallying/bolstering? or is everyone in the front rank to upgrade the fighting capability so that no one is going to break?

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:25 pm

Sending a general back to try to rally a broken BG is a luxury and not one that can often be afforded.

Having all your generals fighting in the front rank also has its risks as once in combat you can't leave till the combat ends.

I tend to have generals in the front rank where I want, need or expect to win quickly and with the fighting BG but not fighting where I think I will lose or am not too woried about how long the fight will take. A general with a BG in combat but not fighting in person can move to a different BG if needed and that is very handy.

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:38 pm

Good to see the art of general use taking up so much space ... surely a good thing

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:41 pm

Unclemeat wrote:If you plan an army with 4xTC or an IC/FC with 2xTC do most folks drop a general back for rallying/bolstering? or is everyone in the front rank to upgrade the fighting capability so that no one is going to break?

It tends on how far back I have to drop them to get some help and how things are going.

Very early I swtiched to all TCs and was very happy with that. I am not experimenting with an IC. I generally make a quick decision on the can I save a BG from routing away. If they are down 25% and within 6 MU of board edge that is a -5 and practically not coming back with just a TC. If I can get someone to them before they get to the board edge and if they haven't taken 25% then I will as it can be important. Usually this only applies to skirmishes or something that got hurt early as the battle developes the generals all tehnd to be busy near the thick of things.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:43 pm

hammy wrote: Having all your generals fighting in the front rank also has its risks as once in combat you can't leave till the combat ends.

More so if your opponent rolls 12s. My Knights bagged a castillian Inspired General.