Orb Formation

durrati · Post by **durrati** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:42 pm

The concept BGs as I understand is that they are a collection of smaller units that are deployed as seen fit by the local commanders - Romans in two lines or Huns in lots of small groups.

The 'orb formation' in the rules seems to really stick out in this concept. What is the thinking behind them? Why does it need to be depicted with its own rules as oppossed to say Cantabrian circle (or any other special formation) which are not. Was it used so commonly that special rules for this one formation were felt to be needed.

Also, what was the theory behind only spears and pikes being able to do it. Could not say romans form up in something similar just as well? Were all troops that were spear / pikes able to adopt a solid all around formation.

I ask because as I say, the 'orb formation' rules seem to stick out of the rules jammed in at the end and do not reallt seem to fit wih the rest of the concepts of the rules (IMHO of course).

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:48 am

I think the answer to does it need its own rules is yes because it is materially different from other formations that can be subsumed into the normal BG formation and it was common enough to warrant it.

I do agree that only allowing spears and pikes this formation looks a bit odd - after all Vegetius talks about the Romans forming orb.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:52 am

I was reading that on a web site just now, it seems to be a Roman formation.

Brian

Phaze_of_the_Moon · Post by **Phaze_of_the_Moon** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:32 am

I would say it's because something like the "Canatabrian circle" only makes the troops better at what they already do while the orbis changes their nature.

I would think that more than the Roamans would get it. Tetsudo certainly, but also schiltron, and ...

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:07 am

We looked at both adn the asnwer is a pragmatic one in how rule mechanisms handle things

Cantabrian really wasn't needed to get LH to work well and didn't merit a special rule

Orb is radically different as it is a fundamentally different thing so it couldn't be represented reasonably without a special rule.

Pure pragmatism top down

Si

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:23 am

BrianC wrote:I was reading that on a web site just now, it seems to be a Roman formation.

Brian

Orb is just what the Romans called it - a medieval term that crops up is crown for example.

durrati · Post by **durrati** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:16 pm

shall wrote: Pure pragmatism top down
Si

Good answer........

And the reasoning that all pike / spear troops can do it and no other troops can? Is it to just to keep it simple?

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:36 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
BrianC wrote:I was reading that on a web site just now, it seems to be a Roman formation.

Brian
Orb is just what the Romans called it - a medieval term that crops up is crown for example.

I simply meant that I was reading a Roman tactics site and they mentioned that it was a valid Roman formation. I didn't mean to imply that it was only a Roman formation.

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:41 pm

shall wrote:

Pure pragmatism top down
Si

Good answer........

And the reasoning that all pike / spear troops can do it and no other troops can? Is it to just to keep it simple?

That and a belief that while you might form it, for it to have true defensive strength you needed some form of long pointy stick.

Si