Initial thoughts - Reaching a younger audiance

[Brainsnaffler]

Hi everyone,

I have managed to get my mits on the main rulebook and rise of rome (the wait was killing me!). When I flicked through the book, I was breathless at how well produced it was and how great it looked - my face was like this for more than an hour!

I haven't actually played a game yet (and I can't profess to have played much Ancients wargaming but know of DBA / M), but I am really looking forward to it.

The only thing that I think is a drawback to these rules is that they read like a science text book. I think after three or four read throughs, the majority of rules you will need will have stuck in your head, but it just seems incredibly complicated. I don't want to put down the game because I think it looks great and these rules are about replicating the style of warfare from the period EXACTLY, which is another aspect I really like. The problem I'm raising is that if I were 12 or 13 (I am 29), I think I wouldn't stand a chance of getting to grips with these rules and may put them down before I got to realising that this is a great game and that's a shame because this game has great potential to expand it's membership (I have never played ancients and I have been drawn in).

So, not to be one to throw spanners in the works; is there anything like a PDF document or something that could be made that takes a novice smoothly in order through each of the turn phases by a basic set up of miniatures and shows just through examples a simplified plain english version of how the system works (i.e. the rulebook deals with impact phase but not the combat ensuing from it until melee)?

I may have got it completely wrong - the game may be very simple, but it doesn't look it from the initial read through and my fellow gamers are after a game that's easy to play so I hope beyond hope that I can convince them.

[shall]

We are working on a FOG-lite concept that is aimed at 10-12 yar olds to get them playing the game. We will see if we can get something suitable to act as a feeder product to help grow the hobby.

Have fun. It takes abour 3-5 games to get the hang of it pretty fully from tester experiecen so far.

Si

[neilhammond]

The problem I'm raising is that if I were 12 or 13 (I am 29), I think I wouldn't stand a chance of getting to grips with these rules and may put them down before I got to realising that this is a great game and that's a shame because this game has great potential to expand it's membership

I'm not sure this is as much of a problem as it may first seem. Younger players tend to learn by playing the game (I certainly did). They're more likely to get involved in ancients wargaming if there are games they can join in with.

[RichJones]

Please do a cut down intro version for kids - it would be very useful to use at school

If this is any help the Key Stage 2 Primary Curriculum covers Invaders and Settlers (to England) and the kids normally study the Romans, Ancient Brits (Boudicca mainly) and then Saxons and Vikings.

Now they are supposed to look at the way the armies fought - and what better way than FoG !

A pack for Primary schools with the cut down rules and some 'birds eye' Battlegroups would be a good way to get the kids hooked and maybe moving on to the proper rules later - I'd certainly run it as an activity for our school (no way they are getting to play with my minis though! ).

Anyway if you want any help getting it into 'school speak' 'learning objectives' what strands of the curriculum it would help (not just history of course - maths, speaking and listening, ICT 'research' and even D&T/Art etc) let me know

[shall]

We may well take you up on that offer Rich when the time is right.

Thanks

Si

[RichJones]

My pleasure mate ...
We can test it out on my year 6 class at school
As I am in charge of the Upper School I can't see it being a problem

Cut down PoA tables and only a few troop types (on cards with the stats on there anyway so you can put 'needs 4 against xx, 5 against xxx') cut down the cohesion test modifiers a bit and basically you are away I think.

Mmmmmmm might give it a bash anyway and send you feedback etc.

Rich Jones

[malekithau]

Jeez FOG is doing well - managed to drag Rich away from his WW2 gear :}

[Ironhand]

As soon as I can get a couple of starter Ancients armies painted - my painted armies are Normans and Late Hungarians - I'm going to run some games at my local hobby store and try to draw in some of the 12-14 year olds.

[shall]

I can't share the lists sa these are under warps until the books come out, however if you want a sensibke design for a Norman and Late Hungarian so you try with these happy to adapt my beta-test armoie for you.

Si

[RichJones]

Hee hee - not dragging me away from WW2 - just means I need to cram in even more gaming

Besides Ancients was my first love ...

[Brainsnaffler]

Well I agree with malekithau - FOG is looking extremely good. I have wargamed for 16 years on or off and I have never taken to ancients (DBA wasn't realistic enough for me), but when I heard the rules set was coming out, I was hooked! I still love to game WWII, but this is definately capturing my attention at the moment - I just hope I can explain the rules in a simple enough way to convince my fellow gamers

[Ironhand]

I can't share the lists sa these are under warps until the books come out, however if you want a sensibke design for a Norman and Late Hungarian so you try with these happy to adapt my beta-test armoie for you.
Si

That's very kind of you Si. I have plenty of Dark Ages types because I ran a Civitate scenario using Medieval Warfare at COLD WARS and HISTORICON a couple of years back. A Norman list would be fine - I'll just make it a Norman civil war and use the same list for both sides. Hopefully when the appropriate book comes out I'll be able to run the Civitate scenario using FoG.

[shall]

Here you go = 600pts exactly

Should make a nice test game if you have enough spearmen. Extract from the full army tested. Don't assume its perfect but good enough.

If you fancy more knights drop an armourd spear block and add another knight block

Si


C-in-C FC - - - - - -
Sub General TC - - - - - -
Sub General TC - - - - - -
Knights Kn Superior Undrilled Armoured - Lancers Swordmen
Knights Kn Superior Undrilled Armoured - Lancers Swordmen
Spearmen HF Average Undrilled Armoured - defensive spearmen Spearmen
Spearmen HF Average Undrilled Armoured - defensive spearmen Spearmen
Spearmen HF Average Undrilled Protected - defensive spearmen Spearmen
Spearmen HF Average Undrilled Protected - defensive spearmen Spearmen
Bowmen MF Average Undrilled Protected Bow - -
Bowmen MF Average Undrilled Protected Bow - -


Si

[Assassin]

Hi all,

We're going to try the folowing later and see how it works out.

Army list is limited to 300 points
Half minima and maxima
One free FC and one free TC per army
Table size 4' * 4'
Limit terrain choices to one compulsary each and one choice each.

I feel that this represents a small army group with a specific mission or an outflanking force so should not be led by an IC, who will have more important things to be doing with the main army.

What do you think ?
Darren

[Ironhand]

Thanks Si. Now I've got to go count some lead

[shall]

Another option if a bit short. Give one side an IC and drop a Prot So BG

Si

[sagji]

I would suggest not giving free generals, and upping the points to compensate. There are some armies that would want 2 FC and no TCs, or 2 TCs and no FC, or even just a FC and an allied general.

[Ironhand]

Si, those are all 6 base battle groups, right? I've got plenty of knights and spearmen, but no archers, except for a few bases of what would be LF in FoG. I've got a goodly number of crossbowmen though, some based as MF, and some as LF.

[shall]

Ah lost the numbers

4s for the Knights
8s for the rest

Sub LF for the bowmen - same price.

Si

[Ironhand]

That will work perfectly. I think I'll give one side 3 BG of knights and 3 of Spearmen, and the other 2 BG of knights and 4 of spearmen. That will throw a little variety into it. Thanks again Si.