Yeh its not in the manual. How does it all fit together? What values are good against armor what is good against infantry. Why does my artillery do zero damage against gretchins and totally murder tanks? It feels like i'm guessing whenever i pick a unit to fire upon.
Armor piercing 10% what does that mean? There defense is lowered by 10%. Your attack is 10% stronger. Does it only apply when firing on certain units.
When i target something what is the number to the left and what is the number to the right?
All the numbers need explanations please please, as it is right now its just random numbers doing random stuff.
How does combat work?
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Aloo
- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
- Posts: 217
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Re: How does combat work?
All of the above make choosing units a problem. At the end of the tutorial you have 6 tanks to choose from with slightly different stats but no clue how well will they work in game. If the game mechanics are not explained then at least write something about units - what do they do well and what are they vulnerable to. In PzC this was common knowledge but here, for people like me with low or no lore knowledge its a guessing game.
PS I liked the tutorial but didn't learn much from it.
PS I liked the tutorial but didn't learn much from it.
Re: How does combat work?
Let me see if I can dig up any of this... no promises though!
Re: How does combat work?
Knowing 40k will be a bonus as you would know which guns are good for what but if you dont this is how i make it
the unit has an accuracy which is lowered byy 10% per hex distance from the target(unknown if a weapon has minimun distance if this is still 100% though) iam sure 1 hex is standard so 2 hex is -10%
morale which is the unit strength colour white, yellow, orange, and red reduce arccuracy but unknown how much ## important this is where leaders are very usefull. as they depending on there combat readiness (morale) can bring all adjacents units back 1 lvl .( also rest and refit will bring back 1 level of CR (morale) and will heal 1 hitpint if the unit has more then 1 HP per sqaud member or tank were as reinforce uses requisition and brings back the dead.
you shoot all weapons at 1 target that are in range. other wapons not in range are not used
you get the amount of shoots per weapon per the amount of personal in the company. so a 2 shot lasgun in a 20 man squad shoots 40 times.
the strength of the weapon versus targets armour is then applied with equal being 50% chance so a 50 st v 50 arm = a 50% chance of doing 1 wound, 60 st v 50 arm would then be a 60% chance to wound. amour peircing i beleive is a percentage reduction in the enemy armour so a 20% AP on 40 arm would reduce it to 32 which is then calculated against st.
when the computer gives you an estimate it is just that it is an estimate and also it is the amount off damage done (HPs) NOT KILLS so doing 5 dmage vs a tank with 5 HPs is only 1 kill
i hope this is helpfull
the unit has an accuracy which is lowered byy 10% per hex distance from the target(unknown if a weapon has minimun distance if this is still 100% though) iam sure 1 hex is standard so 2 hex is -10%
morale which is the unit strength colour white, yellow, orange, and red reduce arccuracy but unknown how much ## important this is where leaders are very usefull. as they depending on there combat readiness (morale) can bring all adjacents units back 1 lvl .( also rest and refit will bring back 1 level of CR (morale) and will heal 1 hitpint if the unit has more then 1 HP per sqaud member or tank were as reinforce uses requisition and brings back the dead.
you shoot all weapons at 1 target that are in range. other wapons not in range are not used
you get the amount of shoots per weapon per the amount of personal in the company. so a 2 shot lasgun in a 20 man squad shoots 40 times.
the strength of the weapon versus targets armour is then applied with equal being 50% chance so a 50 st v 50 arm = a 50% chance of doing 1 wound, 60 st v 50 arm would then be a 60% chance to wound. amour peircing i beleive is a percentage reduction in the enemy armour so a 20% AP on 40 arm would reduce it to 32 which is then calculated against st.
when the computer gives you an estimate it is just that it is an estimate and also it is the amount off damage done (HPs) NOT KILLS so doing 5 dmage vs a tank with 5 HPs is only 1 kill
i hope this is helpfull
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FroBodine
- Master Sergeant - U-boat
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Re: How does combat work?
That is very helpful stuff, sdeix75. Again, WHY IS THIS STUFF NOT EXPLAINED IN THE GAME OR MANUAL?!? This frustrates me to no end.
These are full price games, and you don't explain anything about how the combat works.
This is the most useful piece of information from sdeix75 that I have read so far. . . "when the computer gives you an estimate it is just that it is an estimate and also it is the amount off damage done (HPs) NOT KILLS so doing 5 dmage vs a tank with 5 HPs is only 1 kill"
That would sure have been something kind of important to tell us, don't you think Slitherine/Flashback/Lordz?
Kerensky - no promises? Why not? Your game is obtuse and fairly incomprehensible. Please explain it to us. If you can't dig anything up, who can?
These are full price games, and you don't explain anything about how the combat works.
This is the most useful piece of information from sdeix75 that I have read so far. . . "when the computer gives you an estimate it is just that it is an estimate and also it is the amount off damage done (HPs) NOT KILLS so doing 5 dmage vs a tank with 5 HPs is only 1 kill"
That would sure have been something kind of important to tell us, don't you think Slitherine/Flashback/Lordz?
Kerensky - no promises? Why not? Your game is obtuse and fairly incomprehensible. Please explain it to us. If you can't dig anything up, who can?
Re: How does combat work?
I want to know how close combat works and how to initiate it? I moved my horse guys (Rough Riders?) next to some Gretchin and it seemed that they just shot their lasers at them, rather than engaging in melee combat. I couldn't see how to initiate the melee though. Is there a button or something? Or does it automatically initiate melee if you are next to someone, but its just hard to tell because the animation is the same as shooting>?
Re: How does combat work?
Company secrets? No state secrets!FroBodine wrote:Kerensky - no promises? Why not? Your game is obtuse and fairly incomprehensible. Please explain it to us. If you can't dig anything up, who can?
But seriously, it's very possible it's working by design, so I need to check that with the team first.
Re: How does combat work?
Also, you should click on things. No seriously, click on everything that has a tooltip when you mouse over it. There is quite a bit of detail in there. When you click 'attack strength' for example, there is some text explanation.
Re: How does combat work?
close combat works by being right next to them (next hex) shooting is done first then comes close combat attacks. close combat attacks are 0 range i beleive
Re: How does combat work?
also i forgot cover the way it works i think is 50% cover (fortifications) will reduce the damage received
Re: How does combat work?
experiance sorry guys dont know how it works yet havnt got a units xp up 10 skulls yet to see if you get a special unit upgrade. ive got 6 of 10 skulls (xp) and cant see a difference
Re: How does combat work?
Kerensky wrote:Also, you should click on things. No seriously, click on everything that has a tooltip when you mouse over it. There is quite a bit of detail in there. When you click 'attack strength' for example, there is some text explanation.
but clicking on the xp skulls doesnt work. also how much accuracy penalty does yellow orange and red give you
Re: How does combat work?
Qft. I'm continuing the talk about that stuff in this thread because the one I posted above losing the first level came down to my own stupidity - yet the misc questions I raised are the same ones asked herein and thus remain valid.FroBodine wrote:Again, WHY IS THIS STUFF NOT EXPLAINED IN THE GAME OR MANUAL?!?
For example, the bit about the combat prediction being in HP rather than kills is extremely important and should have been mentioned numerous times on multiple occasions (such as the tutorial, the manual as well as tooltips) so every player has a good chance to stumble across that info without consulting the forums.
But the UI (in terms of discoverability) and documentation for this game are a complete failure.
Why the heck aren't predictions in kills, or at least contain both bits of info? For example -2 [2] / -6 [0].
Can you at least get a detailed combat breakdown like you could in PzC?
In a game that's so dumb... err, steamlined in some respects that it almost hurts, it appears combat is deeper than it appears at first glance after all. There's a number of variables around that were actually steamlined away in Pzc - units have different base strength (this was almost always 10 in PzC disregarding overstrength) AND can have different HP, some weapons appear to be more about mowing down large numbers of small enemies and others more about hitting a few enemies really hard.
Some artillery pieces are apparently more about frontline support (as their artillery attack has the same range as a conventional attack), because support appears to still work as is did in PzC, with artillery pieces only supporting adjacent units, which of course makes no sense whatsoever in a game where basically all units are ranged.
There's a flood of small stats that have a small impact on combat and that you're supposed to judge having been given no background info whatsoever.
This weapon has a higher number of shots. That weapon has high base accuracy. This other weapon has a 20 higher base damage. But this weapon has higher range. That tank has one weapon more, though. But this one has higher initiative. The manual talks about (runnin out of) ammo, but this appears to be not even in the game?
Which tank is better at performing in the average engagement? Wanna draw the 50:50 joker, ask the audience or call a friend?
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rezaf
Re: How does combat work?
I believe the detailed combat breakdown in Panzer Corps came in a patch after release date. I am with you in hoping they do it for Armageddon too as there are a huge number of variables to take into account which can be very hard to determine on initial play.
Regarding support, i think some other units can provide support and not just artillery. For example it seemed that my machine gun troops (Heavy Bolter infantry) provided support during the opponents turn. But i'm not sure how to tell which units can provide support and which ones can't. Any idea where to look?
Regarding support, i think some other units can provide support and not just artillery. For example it seemed that my machine gun troops (Heavy Bolter infantry) provided support during the opponents turn. But i'm not sure how to tell which units can provide support and which ones can't. Any idea where to look?
Re: How does combat work?
Support units have "support" special ability icon both in Purchase screen and in main UI.
I'll write up some details of combat a bit later, but for now you can check out combat simulator feature in the Editor. Go to Edit->Unit Editor, third tab. There you can experiment with various factors and see how they affect combat, and also see combat log, the way it is now anyway. Still thinking how to represent this info in a more compact and clear form in game UI...
I'll write up some details of combat a bit later, but for now you can check out combat simulator feature in the Editor. Go to Edit->Unit Editor, third tab. There you can experiment with various factors and see how they affect combat, and also see combat log, the way it is now anyway. Still thinking how to represent this info in a more compact and clear form in game UI...
Re: How does combat work?
Panzer Corps style presentation was really good, so i suggest using that as the base (ctrl left click). But then Armageddon seems to have more variables, so it could be hard to fit all the relevant information in...
Re: How does combat work?
JimmyC wrote:
Regarding support, i think some other units can provide support and not just artillery. For example it seemed that my machine gun troops (Heavy Bolter infantry) provided support during the opponents turn. But i'm not sure how to tell which units can provide support and which ones can't. Any idea where to look?
In the unit info panel on the right side or in the unit purchase screen. A unit with the support ability will have an explosive icon. Hovering your mouse cursor over such an icon will display it name. Clicking on the icon will open a pop-up window with a description. In case of support "This unit provides supporting fire to adjacent friendly units".
Please notice unlike PzC artillery, units with the support ability may have only direct fire weapons available to them. Like your Steel Legion Fire Support squad. They can't provide support fire against enemy units without LOS (line of sight), or only at reduced efficient if they have only partial LOS on them.
Unfortunately currently the unit info screen does not show icons for weapon trait like indirect fire. You can see weapon traits only in the unit purchase screen. But basically all mortars can do indirect fire.
Notice that the Bombard artillery unit main weapon Heavy Siege Motar is not only missing the indirect fire trait but also has the "Bulky" trait which prevent the weapon being used in retaliation. Since this unit has not other weapon it can be attacked with impunity. On the other hand the Medusa Artillery unit has a very powerful Siege gun but does not have the support ability nor the indirect fire trait. With out indirect fire trait you can't fire over obstacles, and only with reduced efficiency against units in terrain with LOS penaltiy.
This LOS penalty seem to be cumulative. For example Dead Forest blocks 20% LOS. A unit 3 hexes deep will have total blocked LOS of 60% which I think affect accuracy, but for the lack of feedback from the game or manual this is just an educated guess. Obviously if you have a total blocked LOS of 100% you can't target with direct fire weapons. Only with indirect fire weapons which ignores LOS.
Last edited by Dragoon. on Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How does combat work?
Thanks for the detailed response Dragoon. Much appreciated!
I also heard mention that there is an accuracy penalty on most guns based on the range. Somewhere i saw mentioned that each hex further away results in a corresponding reduction in accuracy of 10%. Is this true?
I also heard mention that there is an accuracy penalty on most guns based on the range. Somewhere i saw mentioned that each hex further away results in a corresponding reduction in accuracy of 10%. Is this true?
Re: How does combat work?
Yes you are right. This is also shown on the screenshot above. Check the stats for the Heavy Mortar and Heavy Bolter weapons.JimmyC wrote:Thanks for the detailed response Dragoon. Much appreciated!
I also heard mention that there is an accuracy penalty on most guns based on the range. Somewhere i saw mentioned that each hex further away results in a corresponding reduction in accuracy of 10%. Is this true?
The second last icon (crosshair) from the bottom show the weapon accuracy (click on it for a description) Both Weapon have 100% accuracy.
The last icon (bigger crosshair) show the accuracy loss per hex. The Heavy Mortar retain it's accuracy, but the Heavy Bolter loose 10% accuracy per hex as show in the screenshot.
Re: How does combat work?
this is not Panzer Corps.JimmyC wrote:I believe the detailed combat breakdown in Panzer Corps came in a patch after release date. I am with you in hoping they do it for Armageddon too as there are a huge number of variables to take into account which can be very hard to determine on initial play.
Regarding support, i think some other units can provide support and not just artillery. For example it seemed that my machine gun troops (Heavy Bolter infantry) provided support during the opponents turn. But i'm not sure how to tell which units can provide support and which ones can't. Any idea where to look?
I came here due to the official GW 40k tag and now you keep talking about some WWII game that got poor to average reviews at best.
there is no support tropps in 40k to shoot during your opponents turn.
mechanics like that are just shiny examples how this is even remotely based on 40k apart from names