Extra movement to support guns/man fortifications

[ravenflight]

Hi All,

I played a game against a friend of mine (a notorious cheater, so I DID expect some 'colourful' interpretations of the rules). One thing that he thought was in the rules somewhere was that you get extra movement to support guns and/or man fortifications in the first bound of a turn.

This came about because I had a couple of BG's of dragoons that sprinted down one flank in the first bound (15") and ended up threatening his guns because he wasn't going to be able to get his troops into 'support' position in time.

I scanned through the rules and couldn't find anything.

Could I not find anything because:

1) the rule is not there, and the notorious rules cheater was caught out yet again;
2) the rule is there, but the rulebook is fairly badly laid out so nobody can be expected to find it; or,
3) the rule is there RavenFlight... it's on PP## and you're an idiot for not being able to locate it within 15 seconds of the question being asked!

[marshalney2000]

Do not have my rules to hand but it is definitely there and indeed I have used it in the past when I have deployed guns and fortifications. I will check in the morning but suspect it might be in the set up and deployment appendix of the rules.
In order to get the benefit you must be directly lined up behind the guns etc so no wheeling.
John

[ravenflight]

Found it. His status as notorious cheater continues:

P182

"Foot battle groups (other than battle wagons or artillery) whose entire front edge was deployed 10MUs forward from their rear table edge can move up to defend fortifications placed parallel to the rear table edge as their entire first turn move, even if this exceeds their normal move."

Nothing there about doing it for artillery!

Page marked in my head

[hazelbark]

It doesn't mention artillery? My memory thought that it did. Give folks some time to check rules to make sure.

But also how could your Dragoons get there before him?

Even with your dragoons getting 3 moves on turn one You can't close to within 6 MU.
So you move.
He moves infantry from 10 MU to 13MU.
Front of artillery is 15 MU. Artilery is 1.6 MU deep.
So he .4 MU from artillery at end of turn 1 and you are over 6 MU.
So you move 5 MU to 1 MU from artillery and he moves up.

[Vespasian28]

He moves infantry from 10 MU to 13MU.
Front of artillery is 15 MU. Artilery is 1.6 MU deep.
So he .4 MU from artillery at end of turn 1 and you are over 6 MU.

Artillery and FF can be deployed up to 15MU in. Foot directly behind the artillery/FF that are at the 10MU limit for deployment can then move up to support the artillery or line up behind the FF in their first move even if this exceeds their normal move.

So in your example the Foot are supporting the artillery at the end of the first move as they don't move 3MU but 3.4MU or whatever the distance is. If moving to behind FF they would move even further.

At least that's how I understand it.

[quackstheking]

It is only Foot BGs only get the extra move to line up behind Field Fortifications - NOT to line up behind artillery. See page 182 for the restrictions on how foot can get the extra move in their 1st move turn to line up behind FF. Simplistically the FF must be:-

1. Parallel to the rear edge (i.e. not inclined in any way.)
2. The foot must move upas their entire first turn move
3. The foot BG's must be deployed at the 10MU mark
4. The foot move must be straight forward but may include a shift of up to half a base width to line up.
5. All the Foot Front Edge bases must end the move defending the FF - i.e. no overlaps on any side

This does not apply to artillery!

Don

[ravenflight]

It is only Foot BGs only get the extra move to line up behind Field Fortifications - NOT to line up behind artillery. See page 182 for the restrictions on how foot can get the extra move in their 1st move turn to line up behind FF. Simplistically the FF must be:-

1. Parallel to the rear edge (i.e. not inclined in any way.)
2. The foot must move upas their entire first turn move
3. The foot BG's must be deployed at the 10MU mark
4. The foot move must be straight forward but may include a shift of up to half a base width to line up.
5. All the Foot Front Edge bases must end the move defending the FF - i.e. no overlaps on any side

This does not apply to artillery!

Don

Yes everything that that rule points to is:
1- my opponent is a notorious cheater; and,
2- everything about that rule is indicative of pre-planning to have the FF manned from the very beginning. They get the extra movement so that they can fulfil the plan that was in mind when the FF were placed.

[Vespasian28]

My mistake. I thought when foot moved up to support artillery they occupied the"same" space effectively so that if the artillery were behind FF then the foot could move up and count as defending FF, which they would do if it came to close combat.

[ravenflight]

It doesn't mention artillery? My memory thought that it did. Give folks some time to check rules to make sure.

But also how could your Dragoons get there before him?

Even with your dragoons getting 3 moves on turn one You can't close to within 6 MU.
So you move.
He moves infantry from 10 MU to 13MU.
Front of artillery is 15 MU. Artilery is 1.6 MU deep.
So he .4 MU from artillery at end of turn 1 and you are over 6 MU.
So you move 5 MU to 1 MU from artillery and he moves up.

Because he was in column.

Move 1 I move to 6.5" from his guns.
Move 2 he moves short of the guns.
move 3 I move to 1.5" of the guns.
move 4 he moves to support half of the guns, but as he is in column, 1 gun is not supported, and thus can be captured, therefore capturing the whole BG (and causing a test, which is really what I was after). What's more it would have been difficult for him to recapture the guns effectively as the supporting troops were detached pike, so not 'shot' to re-man the guns.
Move 5 I wheel and capture whichever gun was not rear supported.

His other option was to push further forward with some other troops, which was also part of my nefarious plan... which is what he did, thus saving the guns.

Then again, this was another of the games where I might as well not been there. In another segment of the game I had 3 bases of Cavaliers (1 base lost on a 1 from the very same guns!!!) roll down a hill into some carbiniers supported by commanded shot. So, evens vs Commanded shot and advantaged vs carbiniers. I'm superior with a general. So, let's do the maths: 6 dice going for 4's with rerolling 1's & 2's vs 4 dice going for 5's and 2 dice going for 4's.

He won the impact of course, and I think he killed my general too!