Quick question about strength vs over strentgh

[gonavy21]

When you over strength, say to 11,12,13 etc. etc., is the only thing that you are increasing is the hitpoints of the unit or does the attack value increase as well? I saw that some units like AT units and AA units gain intuitive and attack points but does the same apply to infantry and tanks? I guess what I'm wondering is if you have an 4 star infantry unity but you leave their strength at 10 not 14 are they any stronger then a 0 star infantry unity when their strength is at 10? Same can be applied to tanks.

[Naxor]

Good question. What I know they perform better in combat than unexperienced units and overstrengthing also helps. I don't understand formula behind it. Hope someone could explain it so everyone understands, not just throw link to existing topic.

[captainjack]

The detailed effects of experience are determined by the unit class, but you generally get extra initiative, attack and defence. At one time every unit got +1 on each for each experience star, but now it varies a bit. There are tables of which units get what somewhere in the forum, but two useful examples are that AA get +2/star for Air attack, AT get +2 Hard attack. This means your AA and AA are much more effective with 2 or 3 stars, but then so are the enemy. After about 1943 some people like to bring in more AA and fewer aircraft because of the effectiveness of enemy AA, but others revise their tactics or accept higher losses.

Now for overstrength:
You don't need to be overstrength to get the experience bonuses.

If you have more strength, you get more combat rolls. So at 10 strength, you normally roll 10 times, and at 13 you would get 13 rolls. So you should cause more damage. High overstrength is an expensive business - 10% of the unit cost for 1 point, 15% for the second, 20% for the third, 25% for the fourth and 30% for the fifth. A lot of people only add one or two overstrength to conserve prestige, and some don't overstrength at all. There's quite a bit of discussion on what units benefit from overstrength the most. For example, I reckon good defence heroes (3 or better) increase the chances you won't take damage enough so you are more likely to keep the extra strength for longer and I often overstrength these more than other units.
IMPORTANT NOTE: These costs are for overstrength when in the deployment screen. Once play starts the cost is much greater (Double I think, same as with elite reinforcements)


And finally - Rate of Fire
The bit about normally getting 10 rolls for 10 strength is because some units have a Rate of Fire (ROF) that is more or less than 100%. At 120%, you fire 6 shots for every 5 strength. At 80% you only fire 4 shots for every 5 strength. For some ROF, adding an extra strength point will sometimes add no direct benefit. Eg 10 strength with 80% ROF is 8 attacks, but 11 is 8.8 which rounds down to 8. You still have the advantage that you can take a bit more damage and remain combat effective, but you might be better off staying at 10 strength for this unit.

ROF is not easy to find - it's in the equipment file, which is an important part of the game and should be treated with care. It is also displayed in combat results (press Control +L after your attack). However, units that have ROF other than 100% are:
flame tanks (140%)
German Quad AA (120%)
Artillery (mostly between 70% and 110%, but a few special units have less)

Some people caution against upgrading artillery because ROF is usually lower in heavier guns. It's a hard one to work out accurately which is better as you have to account for the type of targets you are firing at as well as the guns themselves. . I suspect that higher ROF is better when you are using Full random settings for your dice rolls and less useful on Dice Chess or Chess settings. But then I keep some of the lighter guns because they have better ammo (so I run out less often) and any ROF benefit is a bonus, so you might want to check other people's views.

For mobile AA, the higher ROF is probably better early in the war (when aircraft defence is generally lower) and on defence (because fighters and tac bombers have -5 defence while attacking ground troops). A heavier gun (ie single 37mm) has a better chance of damaging a more heavily armoured plane, so is probably more use later in the war.

[JimmyC]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. Whilst I knew about ROF, I didn’t think about the correlation between it and overstrength. I mostly run with 17cm SPAG as I don’t like the 21cm due to less ammo and only 70% ROF. I also generally overstrength my artillery to 11 to conserve prestige. But reading your response I just realized that its almost worthless adding only 1 overstrength as the 80% ROF means that the attack dice would be the same for both a 10 strength and 11 strength 17cm SPAG. For my own purposes I did this quick calculation for 80% ROF unit:

Strength 10 – 8 attack dice
Strength 11 x 80% = 8.8 = 8 attack dice (.8 wasted)
Strength 12 x 80% = 9.6 = 9 attack dice (.6 wasted)
Strength 13 x 80% = 10.4 = 10 attack dice (.4 wasted)
Strength 14 x 80% = 11.2 = 11 attack dice (.2 wasted)
Strength 15 x 80% = 12 = 12 attack dice (0 wasted)

So in terms of efficiency, the higher the overstrength, the less attack dice “wasted” for 80% ROF units.

Note that i haven't factored in the attack bonus for each star of experience. I guess that this attack bonus is applied after the ROF multiplier? If not, then my calculation above is not correct.

[captainjack]

After one of your combats, use control + L to check results (it sometimes works on enemy combats but is very unpredictable).

You will see that the sequence is to calculate defensive fire first, then initiative then combat results.
This shows that combat odds are determined BEFORE the dice roll.
So if you are 5* you get any applicable experience bonus on initiative to see who goes first.
Then you apply your experience bonus on attack and defence to determine the chance of miss/suppress/kill.
Then you roll (effective strength x ROF) times to see how many suppressions/kills you get.
Effective strength is your actual strength at the start of the combat less any suppression (from reinforcements or from combat).

Because of this, a 4* or 5* unit is still very powerful even if not overstrength - though of course it can be more powerful if it is overstrength.

In my army, artillery with 100% or better RoF usually get 12 strength (maybe 13 or 14 if they have a defence hero), 17cm (RoF 80%) usually get 12 or 13 (9 or 10 shots) otherwise 10, because at 11 strength they still only get 8 shots (11 x 0.8 = 8.8, rounded down). When playing AC, I have started keeping the 25 pounders despite the short range because they fire at 110% and have 8 or 9 ammo, while the 26cwt guns only have 80% RoF and less ammo. The 5.5" gun has slightly better RoF and I've learnt to upgrade when they become available. In AK, the Italian 149mm fires at 90%, which is better than the 15cm at 80%, but you have to accept trucks and limited upgrade paths (though the late model SP gun is a pretty neat upgrade).