Field Fortifications and Cavalry

[pugsville]

The Rules say cavalry can enter a field fortification but never defend,

What happens when a field fortification is entered by a cavalry unit (through the open 'rear') is assaulted by another unit (can infantry assault cavalry 'occupying' a FF?)

Can cavalry or other units assault through a field fortification in any direction? Do they affect movement? Are they just incident terrain unless defended, or as they some sort of obstacle for movement?

[terrys]

What happens when a field fortification is entered by a cavalry unit (through the open 'rear') is assaulted by another unit (can infantry assault cavalry 'occupying' a FF?)

Can cavalry or other units assault through a field fortification in any direction? Do they affect movement? Are they just incident terrain unless defended, or as they some sort of obstacle for movement?

If the FF is not being defended it is treated just as another piece of rough terrain.

[pugsville]

So infantry could only charge cavalry 'occupying' FF if the cavalry were wavering?

Cavalry would NOT get any advantage for being fired while 'occupying' FF? (retire only if broken)

[terrys]

So infantry could only charge cavalry 'occupying' FF if the cavalry were wavering?

Correct

Cavalry would NOT get any advantage for being fired while 'occupying' FF? (retire only if broken)

Correct. Only infantry defending the FF get that advantage.

[pugsville]

"If the FF is not being defended it is treated just as another piece of rough terrain."

Does movement through a FF in otherwise clear terrain count as rough then?

If a cavalry wanted to charge through A FF at a unit on the far side is this legal? is their movement reduced for passing through the FF as rough terrain?

[KeefM]

Any FF is an obstacle too. To cross that requires a CMT once in contact.

[terrys]

Does movement through a FF in otherwise clear terrain count as rough then?

If a cavalry wanted to charge through A FF at a unit on the far side is this legal? is their movement reduced for passing through the FF as rough terrain?

Any FF is an obstacle too. To cross that requires a CMT once in contact.

It should be treated as 'buildings' except that it's rough terrain instead of Difficult - unless entering or leaving through the rear edge.
Infantry advancing into a FF from the front or flank edges requires a CMT if the unit wishes to 'defend' it.
Cavalry cannot attack the front or flank edges
Cavalry and artillery can enter( or leave) through the front or flank edges of an unoccupied FF - the Artillery can only do so if limbered, and the cavalry can only do so if in Column.
(Consider the FF to be a 2 or 3 of redoubts that has gaps between).

[pugsville]

SO cavalry that start in contact with a FF in march column could declare a assault on a unit on the far side ? Movement would be reduced due 'rough' terrain crossed (thus one could not intercept charge across it?)

Does firing across a FF have any effects? Two units either side of a FF can they see each other (does FF obstruct LOS?) and do they fire as normal?

Can infantry form square or be in skirmish in a FF? (squares , cavalry charge through the open side, (the 'rear') it's regarded as open, so they would test for being charged in open , so can they form squares?) or is it like buildings that the only formations allowed would be 'occupy' and 'defend' ?

[terrys]

That's a lot of questions about things that rarely occur ... however ...

SO cavalry that start in contact with a FF in march column could declare a assault on a unit on the far side ? Movement would be reduced due 'rough' terrain crossed (thus one could not intercept charge across it?)

No. March columns can only assault across a bridge or along a road into buildings. (Pg 28) You cannot intercept through it.

Does firing across a FF have any effects? Two units either side of a FF can they see each other (does FF obstruct LOS?) and do they fire as normal?

FF's are treated as buildings, and therefore occupying them (not defending) can only be fired at by artillery.

Can infantry form square or be in skirmish in a FF? (squares , cavalry charge through the open side, (the 'rear') it's regarded as open, so they would test for being charged in open , so can they form squares?) or is it like buildings that the only formations allowed would be 'occupy' and 'defend' ?

They are treated as buildings, so can only be occupied or defended.

[pugsville]

Yeah I agree most of this would rarely happen. But I do have one of those minds.

Just to be clear, do infantry assaulted by cavalry through the open rear test for being charged in the open? (conceivably cavalry could wait less than 2MU from a FF rear, the infantry move into it the cavalry charge , drop for cavalry with in 2MU charging, another drop if they fail the test for being charged in the open) I was thinking about how cavalry could 'contest' a FF in a scenario situation.

So moving into a FF must you start in contact like a building to move into a FF?

Light infantry move into a FF in skirmish formation when they do they are automatically in tactical, when exiting they would in tactical and have to change formation once out to skirmish (if they wanted to be skirmish)

Infantry starting their move in contact with a FF can they charge a unit on the far side? if so do they get their full normal movement (given the underlying terrain is clear)? Do they have to start in contact? (I'm think like a obstacle here) any CMT to cross or assault through?

[terrys]

Just to be clear, do infantry assaulted by cavalry through the open rear test for being charged in the open? (conceivably cavalry could wait less than 2MU from a FF rear, the infantry move into it the cavalry charge , drop for cavalry with in 2MU charging, another drop if they fail the test for being charged in the open) I was thinking about how cavalry could 'contest' a FF in a scenario situation.

They would test for being charged - as if in the open. They are not allowed to form square and would count as being contacted in the rear.
Just don't let cavalry charge into the rear of a FF.

So moving into a FF must you start in contact like a building to move into a FF?

Only in moving through the front or side edges. Moving through the rear edge counts as 'open'

Light infantry move into a FF in skirmish formation when they do they are automatically in tactical, when exiting they would in tactical and have to change formation once out to skirmish (if they wanted to be skirmish)

Yes - The officers need to 'count' the men.

Infantry starting their move in contact with a FF can they charge a unit on the far side? if so do they get their full normal movement (given the underlying terrain is clear)? Do they have to start in contact? (I'm think like a obstacle here) any CMT to cross or assault through?

I'm trying to envisage what you mean ?
Are you talking about starting in contact with the outside edge (facing in) or the inside edge (facing out).
You can't assault through the FF - you have to either pass a CMT to enter or leave before you can charge.
If the FF is unoccupied you may treat it as rough terrain - but only skirmishers have the move distance to pass completely through it.

[pugsville]

Cavalry assault infantry in a FF from the open rear side starting the assault with 2MU.

Do infantry drop for being contacting in the rear? (they fight in combat as assaulted flank or rear)
Do the Infantry drop from being assault in the open from with 2MU? (they count as fighting in the open)
Can they form square?

my current understanding is yes the drop once for charging within 2MU, another CT for being assaulted by cavalry in the open, the can't form squre get defensive fir then drop again and be contacted as it counts as in the rear/flank. Thats 2 auto drops and another if they fail their test!

Is is meant to be that bad if assaulted in the rear in a FF?

[terrys]

Cavalry assault infantry in a FF from the open rear side starting the assault with 2MU.

Do infantry drop for being contacting in the rear? (they fight in combat as assaulted flank or rear)
Do the Infantry drop from being assault in the open from with 2MU? (they count as fighting in the open)
Can they form square?

my current understanding is yes the drop once for charging within 2MU, another CT for being assaulted by cavalry in the open, the can't form squre get defensive fir then drop again and be contacted as it counts as in the rear/flank. Thats 2 auto drops and another if they fail their test!

Is is meant to be that bad if assaulted in the rear in a FF?

I know of only 1 instance of FF's being assaulted in the rear - Borodino. That didn't finish well for the defenders.
If you choose to ignore the fact that the cavalry are to your rear then you deserve what you get.
Automatic drop for being charged in the rear
Automatic drop if charged from within 2MU
A CT for being charged in the open

Maybe this is a little extreme - but they were not built for all-round defence, that would be a fort!
If you plan to use fortifications and expect cavalry to get round their rear (strange plan!!) place a small unit of infantry to it's rear ready to form square.

[Blathergut]

We had our first game with field fortifications today. Still trying to understand their functions clearly. If anyone could help with these:


1. Field fortifications are treated as 'just another piece of rough terrain' if not defended. But further in the posts it states that infantry would need to be in contact and pass a CMT to enter a field fortification from front/sides. So are ff treated strictly as buildings for moving into/out of (with the exception of the rear) or are there situations where ff are treated as rough and movement is slowed but not requiring a CMT? Why consider it 'just another piece of rough terrain' if you can never move over it like you can any other piece of rough terrain???

2. Are there deployment restrictions that keep artillery (or infantry as well??) from leaving ff once deployed in them? Can I move into an empty one on my first turn, unlimber, and later limber and leave?

3. Are there no restrictions on fields of fire? A ff could fire at 3 different enemy units at long range through a gap one base width in size, with neither corner nor centre able to trace to the targets. Is this as intended?

[Blathergut]

In the game today, the ff were more of a hindrance empty than defended by enemy. I had a cavalry corps with almost no infantry. I couldn't move into it, move through it, or shoot over it.

They do block line of sight, even when undefended?

[Blathergut]

Do I have to have an infantry unit touching the ff in order to assault it or can I be up to 6MU away (if reformed )? Do I need to pass a CMT to assault it?

[terrys]

Do I have to have an infantry unit touching the ff in order to assault it or can I be up to 6MU away (if reformed )? Do I need to pass a CMT to assault it?

You assault it in the same way that you would a defended building.
So yes! you make your 6MU assault move to the edge of it and fight the unit inside - You do not need a CMT.

[Blathergut]

Thank you, Terry!

[deadtorius]

Any thoughts on blocking LOS for shooting purposes?

Also just to clarify, I am an infantry unit I want to pass through an empty FF, I just treat it as rough for movement rates? Or is that only cavalry and artillery. Infantry always have to pass a CMT to enter it?

[terrys]

An empty FF counts as an obstacle and therefore requires a CMT to cross or enter. (other than by skirmishers)
There are all types of FF's, but I guess the ones we're considering here are the smaller ones. (or multiple smaller ones).
Larger ones (redoubts like those at Borodino) could not be crossed at all by cavalry or artillery - but would require scenario specific rules.