recon in russia 1941-1942? also % of air force

[ksasaki]

I built up 3 really nice recon trucks in France, but I am terrified to deploy them in Russia because I fear they will just get chewed up. There is a PZ IIF upgrade, but that reduces the total move from 8 to 5, and really decreases the usefulness (IMO). I remember using them in France to take out artillery then sneaking back. I remember I used a Pz IIF with 13 overstrength, and it took a shot from a 15 strength KV1 and went down to 6!! After that I have stopped using them but I really miss their scouting and they multiple move ability which is useful for taking objectives while the rest of your forces move forward.

Another question I have is how much of your core do you usually devote to your air force? I'd say I use ~33% of my core is air force, maybe that is too much?

I always debate whether or not the 88mm gun would be useful, but I feel like more than half the time it is just sitting around doing nothing. Thoughts?

[Anfield]

You sort of answered your own question there. True Recon is great in the first years of the war when it can double as a combat unit too. But as you say, once you go into Russian and the years pass it does become a prime target that cant take the hits. The game too seems to have the AI really target them when it attacks.

I used to run Recon but no longer do. One tip i can give in the 5-3 move. Move them 5 forward then 3 back every turn. That way you get the spotting with them, but should be able to keep them alive as moving 3 back should put them in cover with the rest of your force around them. However with the core limts, I stopped getting them for more airpower. I find my planes can spot well enough out in front, and are a better option when filling out my core.

Id guess my air wing is about 25% of my force. Oh as for 88s, never take them, unless you are sitting and defending they seldom are worth it and just take up a core slot, which again I can find something more useful, like a tracked AA unit.

[Victor_K]

Recon units can be useful. Especially in defensive scenarios. Watch some of Deducter's AAR videos for hints on how to use recon. I always have at least one 88 with maximum experience. Again in the defensive scenario, they are necessary.

As for % for air force, I agree with Anfield, about 25%.

[GSlapshot]

Recon units are necessary in Afrika && AC where minefields can be encountered since minefields chew up regular units.

[grenadier98]

My Panzer Corps experience is limited, cause I'm still new to the game. But I remember from playing a lot of PG II that Recons where essential in more difficult campaigns, because knowing about the enemy and putting your units to fight or avoiding certain fights with this knowledge was far more important than just another combat unit. I remember having a leadered Recon with 6 spotting in the "Das Reich Campaign". I loved this unit and if there was any chance of it getting attacked by tanks, I withdrew it behind my lines. Hope this works in PC too, cause I like to use Recons here as well. I'll see...

[Tarrak]

Yes Grenadier98 recons works in PC exactly as you described. I personally deem them pretty important as well. Being able to see the enemy before he can see you is a huge advantage. It allows you to focus fire on his most dangerous units before they can surprise you and cause some damage to one of your weaker units. While you certainly can live without recon units they make your live a lot easier. Yes late in the war they are quite vulnerable and the AI like to gank up on them but thats where the " Move them 5 forward then 3 back every turn"-strategy mentioned by Anfield comes into play. And even if they get destroyed, they are quite cheap and don't need experience to fulfill they role so just replace them. Every attack the AI used to kill your scout saved you damage on a more important combat unit.

[ksasaki]

It's true, I don't like to use my airforce to scout TOO far ahead because they can get chewed up by anti air batteries. However, I would hate to lose my 3 star recon with two heroes on it, understand I have grown quite attached to that unit!!! But I suppose that is the realities of war. I was very unhappy when I lost my gebirgsjager / artillery in streets of moscow. Those conscripts are endless...

[Razz1]

that's simple. Just buy a new recon unit and use it.

[wargovichr]

A recon unit is VERY useful in later war years especially in the East to detect city objectives that are well protected with sometimes two AA. Recon spots this without fighter recon losses! ALWAYS pull them back behind the line**.
88AA VERY valuable to form iron dome---DEADLY anti-air---Russian fighters will often avoid area of known 88. Useful as anti-tank. Place one hex behind line where can be one hexed to finish off armor attacked and weakened by panzers. Gain experience as clean-up hitters.

[endur]

The key to keeping your recon alive is not to get too greedy, but always move them back after a partial move forward.

In DLC west, I use the Panzer Grenadier halftrack heroes as cheap recon units (which can fight but don't get the special move). They get clobbered if a 1944 tank sneezes in their direction, but they do a good job of scouting, and they are cheap to replace (100 prestige).

For air force, my goal is 25% total for fighters and tactical bombers, but I'm usually slightly more than that. My goal is .25 infantry, .25 tanks, .25 artillery, and .25 aircraft. Actual numbers vary.

The 88 AA gun (and the 90mm Italian gun) are excellent dual use weapons that are fantastic in a defensive situation and is also useful in an offensive scenario where you have to destroy strongpoints.

The nice aspect of the 88 is that it is available from the beginning, so you can buy it in 1939 to use in Polish scenarios.

In general, though, I have a hard time making use of any towed AT gun or towed AA gun in offensive scenarios. So I mostly only bring these guns when I'm in a defensive scenario.

The 88s become even more important if you abandon fighters, and choose to only field AA guns.

In beaches of Normandy, the allies bring 18 or so fighters, and only one or two tactical bombers. The briefing even recommends leaving your aircraft at home and only bringing AA guns.

[ksasaki]

that's an interesting core endur: I don't see any mention of strategic bombers. I found that they are kind of weak in the beginning, but once you hit the He177 they start becoming quite formidable in their own right. However, they need to be escorted just like the stuka, because the enemy fighters will chew them up. Still, I like using strat bombers to hit the guys with ( X ) anti-air: even with an anti-air value of 1 or 2 I still seem to lose tac bombers ALL the time.

[Loki1942]

I never leave home without my recon. Usually have 2 in my core and they are each attached to the 2 combat teams my Corps usually consists of.

[sn0wball]

Insteaf of recon units, in Russia I depended upon two Tanks with Spotting Heroes. If you play through the GC, you´ll get a lot of Heroes and the chances are good that there are Spotters among them.

[ksasaki]

There is that one hero with +2 attack defense and spotting which is nice. But I still like to have recon because they are useful for flagging cities while your other units push forward. Also nice for occasionally picking off a weak / weakened front-line unit then scurrying back quickly. The recon move definitely makes them worthwhile IMO. I remember in the old panzer general I used them initially then I was like wow, they are worse in EVERY way shape and form. So I am glad for the recon move and we can see the recon making a revival! I like to have 3, because I always like to have one near my main forces if only for flagging or finishing off 1 or 2 strength units. They are surprisingly good at killing soft targets despite their (2) soft attack.

[wargovichr]

Recon good for scooping up objective/prestige leaving more heavy hitters up at the line....

[Skulb]

Oh as for 88s, never take them, unless you are sitting and defending they seldom are worth it and just take up a core slot, which again I can find something more useful, like a tracked AA unit.

I disagree with this. 88s are great if you just babysit them a little, and at least until Barbarossa easily the best AT unit available. They also work great when combined with recon units. If you keep them behind in a defensive position the recon unit can pull enemy armor into ambushes. The same works in a battle line with your armor, which can retreat in behind 88s, mangling any enemy armor ill informed enough to follow. As an added bonus they can help you clear the skies as well, which is useful in France and the Low Countries. So to me 88s are the best units available in the game until the long barreled IVs become available, and just as imba on offense as on defense. Nothing like a 13 OS Mathilda being one shotted in an 88 ambush in France:)

As for the OP and recon in Russia it`s tricky because of all the armor and air the Russians have. But you need to get them out in the open if at all possible. A good thing to do in certain places is to send out ground recon under your air force. Sometimes it is possible to quickly overrun targets behind the front line doing this, and with the recons in place you can conquer places your air force has softened up even without artillery and tank support. I usually have 1 or 2 recons in the core, but you need to get every possible combat upgrade so you can poke in and destroy artillery or other soft targets and retreat without being destroyed instantly. Just stay away from tanks and airplanes, or take steps to deal with them and you`ll be fine. The "problem" with Panzer Corps is that it`s tactically a lot more accurate than PG was, so you need a lot of combined arms stuff for things to work properly and can`t just mass tanks and planes and barge across the map. Learning how each unit works and in which combinations is essential. If you have one pioneer, one artillery, one tank and one recon assaulting a city then your recon unit is obviously the artillery hunter of the four while the other three deal with the fortification and any difficult targets. Some people think this makes the recon a waste of a core slot. I don`t

[captainjack]

I tend to rely on tanks or other units with spotting heroes once past about 1939, but there are some scenarios where the recon move is particularly good - especially when looking for mines. In AK and AC I like the switchable recon - Sahariana or Chevy mounted LRDG. When playing AK or DLCs I tend to rely on 88s and a weak air force, but in AC I have managed well enough with no AA units at all other than any auxiliary units in the scenario. In part this is because the British AA is not switchable but also enemy air power is a bit less numerous and easier to protect against with well placed fighter cover. The Centauro is quite a handful, even with some 3 and 4* fighters to set on it as it has good initiative and very high attack values and a mobile AA would be nice IF i had an extra unit slot.