Fortifications shape and size ?

[Amra]

Hi All ,

My Ottomans have a large imobile battery in fortifications ,how do I represent this ?

There is no basing sizes for FF in the rules so my logic runs like this....

I have paid for 3 fortification sections .

Is it like a building , in that the model doesnt matter, it's just a rectangle no more than 6MU in any direction ? (p78) .If so ,how deep is it ? The same as a gun base or it doesn't matter so long as the piece is no more than 6MU in any direction ?

Are the sides automatically paid for too ? So buying 3 FF pieces actually gets me a 3 sided terrain piece (no more than 6MU in any direction )

I shoot and fight from the edge of my "piece" , so it would make sense to have a clear straight base edge with "art" (earthworks etc) placed on top. So I'm thinking it's like a building ,in that it's a template and it doesnt matter what is placed on top ( it also doesnt matter about where the gun models are facing as they fire 180 degrees )

Have I got this right ?

[Blathergut]

re: Size: I would think you would make it a rectangular shape up to 6MU on each side.

re: Sides: Yes, what you are paying for is the rectangular obstacle, not just the defensive front. I don't think you'd have to have an exactly straight edge to the beast, but fairly close, like a building, with a clear understanding of where contact would be made between opposing units.

re: Firing: No, you don't get 180, it's actually more. You fire, like a building, out of any point on the front and sides; but no shooting out of the back (but enemy can shoot in there).

[Amra]

Yup , except

The sides cant be 6MU because then the diagonal would be greater than 6MU and it cannot measure more than 6MU in any direction (p78)

I just think a straight edge is clearer for play but we are essentially saying the same thing

You're right about firing , it is greater than 180 degrees , so that makes the depth of the piece important as I can fire from any side facing .

[deadtorius]

my guess for rule of thumb, you need it to be wide enough to fit a base of your infantry per fortification you buy so the inside part needs to be 3x your base width (depending on 28 or 15mm base size) and probably no deeper than base depth. Allow perhaps 10 or 20mm for decorating it up and there you go, that would be your maximum base size. what is really important is that the front and rear are clearly defined. Troops inside the FF can't be charged in the flank and cavalry can only charge troops inside through the rear. Also taking shooting from the back side does not grant the - POA for cover I believe.

I might have to think about this myself as the Russians can have 3 or 4 FF's in most of their lists I think. Although knowing the French they would just ignore them anyway.

[Amra]

I'm not sure how the models fit matters at all . That sort of thinking is more FoG A logic . I think FOG N treats FF differently. You are not buying a section to cover the front of your element , you are buying ( as was pointed out ) a box with sides but no back . The box has 2 sizes , small and large .

That's why I think it's better to think of it like a building .

The facing of your unit doesnt matter as rear support is determined by "the rear of the fortification" (p79) . So it's the actual fortification template that counts not the shape or facing of your unit.

There is no reason to make the depth "base size" or in any way relate to the models .The only requirement ( I can find ) is that it doesn't measure more than 6 MUs in any direction (for a large battery).

The depth is important because my arty will fire from that face , the longer it is the longer units going past are under the guns . A large heavy battery is a little harder to ignore.

[deadtorius]

I'm not sure how the models fit matters at all

if you are going to put down a piece of paper with FF written on it it really makes no difference. If your building an actual model of earthwork walls on a rectangular base then it helps if your figures will fit inside of it. Even if you just make narrow earth work sections to sit in front and beside your bases you still need to end up larger than your base size on the interior area. Playing 28mm we have 60mm frontage for our figs so putting a 60mm size restriction means my figs will never fit inside a model FF and will end up sitting on top.

Way back when there had been something similar where the rules mentioned a specific measurement from the 15mm base size but it made no sense if using 28mm figs or figs smaller than 15mm. I had pointed it out and Terry had agreed the intention was base width or depth, I don't recall which and the 40mm reference was specific to the 15mm bases by accident.

That was why I had suggested making the interior at least as large as your base size with 20mm for the model earthworks to be built on. I am starting a Russian army so might give them a try some time. Based on 60mm for 40mm base frontage I would probably go 80 or 90mm maximum size for the FF model per base it has to hold. It would have to be 120mm inside, outside would be 160mm or 180mm by 80mm deep for a small unit. We have to go the extra depth for the artillery models so they get mounted on a base the size of a commander.

[Blathergut]

A small FF would measure 4MU across. For 28mm that's 160mm. Two bases of artillery (small unit) will measure 120mm across their front. So you have 20mm on each side for modelling.

[Blathergut]

I don't know if I'd worry if the FF model came in at more than 4MU/6MU diagonally. That might not be feasible with model depth. I haven't sat down and tried drawing one out. Although, as Dead. mentioned, our arty bases are 60mm deep, so (*does a quick drawing*)...

I'm no mathematician, but, it seems to me, no matter what size rectangle I draw, if measuring from a front corner to the opposite back corner, that distance will always be greater than the front line of my rectangle. So I don't think the 'in any direction' can include the diagonal inside.

If you make the FF less than 4MU, you can barely fit the two bases and have no room for modelling a small rise or barrier of some sort.

[Amra]

Here's what I mean . A large battery on deep bases on a template with some dressing

http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/Warfl ... 9.jpg.html

It's roughly 5 1/2" x 4"

[terrys]

Field fortifications should be treated the same a a building.
You pay for an FF as either small or large, defending upon the size of unit you wish to put in it, but only 1 in each.

The size of 4MU and 6MU should be taken as the sides of a rectangle (or square) - NOT the diagonal.
A small unit in tactical just about measures 4MU from corner to corner - so you couldn't make an FF measuring 4mu diagonally and fit the unit inside it.