Shooting through Skirmishers with artillery

[Russ1664]

From a game last night I think we found a contradictory rule applying to arty firing through skirmishers. Our opponents had neatly used a light cavalry unit in a single rank (skirmish formation) to screen their limbered horse arty at long range until it could unlimber.

So shooting at it we applied, page 51 Dice allocation section, bullet point 3, " Arty may ignore units entirely in skirmisher formation......",

while our opponents countered with;

page 52, Firing over intervening units section, second para "Artillery is ...... as long as......." which provides a set of criteria when arty can shoot through skirmishers.

We played using the constraints, is that a correct interpretation?

Though I think for any future versions/clarrification the constraints on shooting through skirmishers would be better placed either in the dice allocation section for arty , or placing under a section heading of its own and not the firing over head.

Russ

[Blathergut]

p51 is for dice allocation...you can ignore having to shoot at skirmishers

p52 explains when/how you can actually shoot over/through them

so both apply

[KeefM]

Also worth noting that irregular light cavalry are 'skirmishers' but that regular light cavalry in extended line are not (definitions). So regular light cavalry at long range are not skirmishers for the purposes of shooting through, but are in extended line (so are a 6 for hits).

[Russ1664]

Many thanks for the confirmation, that's our understanding of the rules.

and yes your right it was a regular light cavalry unit screening the rest of the light cavalry division as it raced towards our guns. Very colourful.

[deadtorius]

I believe it was posted somewhere in the forums that only infantry can count as skirmishers in this case. Early on there was a question about whether light cav in a single line counted as skirmishers or not.
Other than the ability to evade I don't think they affect shooting like infantry.

[Sarmaticus]

A:
P.10: Troop types, cavalry, Light cavalry in a single line of bases move and may evade as if skirmishers .
P.53: the Light cavalry are hit on 6+ by shooting at long range because they are, In a single rank .
P.107: Glossary of terms, Single rank is said to represent a formation in which squadrons and battalions are formed in lines 2 or 3 ranks deep (ie not as skirmishers)
B:
P18: Formations, Skirmish is defined as a formation used by light infantry and light cavalry only.
P.107: Glossary of terms, Skirmishers, Light cavalry in Extended line are included in the list of those considered to be skirmishers .

So, either interpretation is possible:
A) light cavalry are only skirmishers for movement and evasion . Using a screen of light cavalry to cover the deployment or batteries is possible. it was historical practice.
B) light cavalry in a Extended line are skirmishers: they can't screen artillery but they can operate in skirmish order. Skirmish order - en fourageurs (spelling?) - was historical practive, particularly when attacking artillery.

FWIW I think A) is a more useful resolution than B) but both can be argued from the rules as written.

A similarly interesting debate could be had with regard to Irregular cavalry.

[KeefM]

Good summary of the relevant rules . . . however, check the official amendments cos there was a clarification saying that regular light cavalry in extended line did not count as "skirmishers". Thus there is only one interpretation.

[Sarmaticus]

Taking a look at the FOG(N) Errata and corrections - 13_01 I'm still not clear whether or not Light Cavalry are skirmishers. The clarification re p.53 means the - POA as a target of firing only applies to Infantry in Skirmisher Formation. I can't see anything in FOG(N) Errata and corrections - 13_01 referring to p.52 and artillery shooting through skirmishers and the entry re p.107 says LC in extended line act and react as skirmishers but don't move as skirmishers in the Movement Phase. Is p.52 dealt with anywhere else in the official errata?

[KendallB]

As regular cavalry in extended line only count as skirmishers during Assault and Combat phase then the way they act in a turn would be:

Assault phase: May not declare a charge on the front of a non-skirmish (infantry, reg cav in extended line or irregular LC) unit, must evade if charged by non-skirmish cavalry, other units within 4MU ignore for CT if routing, -1 die for CTs.

Firing phase: Act as normal unit except there is a -POA if fired on at long range. Does not act as a skirmishing unit so cannot be fired through, other units within 4MU must take CT if routed in this phase, -1 die for CTs.

Movement phase: May not move out of deployment zone if defending for first 2 turns, must make CT to move backwards (half move), cannot move half distance in any direction if outside 2MU of enemy, -1 die for CTs.

Combat phase: Uses "other formations" line for number of dice, -POA to hit, other units within 4MU ignore for CT if routing, -1 die for CTs.

Recovery phase: -1 die for CTs.

Not an exhaustive list I'm sure!

[Sarmaticus]

Why the -1 POA at long range? I can't see it in the chart on p.53.

[KendallB]

If a unit being fired upon is in extended line at long range there is a -POA. I believe that is true for all units.

[Sarmaticus]

If a unit being fired upon is in extended line at long range there is a -POA. I believe that is true for all units.

On the To-Hit Score chart (also on p.53) a target at long range is hit on 6+ if in single rank but that isn't a -POA. The POA chart on the same page has been amended so that the - (at any range) now only applies if the target is _infantry_ in skirmisher formation.

[KendallB]

I don't have the rules with me. All I know was that it's a 6 that's needed.

But the regular cavalry in extended line will not stop artillery firing through them.

Also it is worth remembering that if the possible target is within 2MU of the skirmishers the firers have to fire at the skirmishers.

[Sarmaticus]

I don't have the rules with me. All I know was that it's a 6 that's needed.

But the regular cavalry in extended line will not stop artillery firing through them.

Also it is worth remembering that if the possible target is within 2MU of the skirmishers the firers have to fire at the skirmishers.

That sounds reasonable but on p.51 it says artillery may ignore units entirely in skirmish formation if there's another target in the same range band. It doesn't have the qualification, "infantry", now added to the entry on p.53 by the official Errata sheet. Adding the qualification suggests that it isn't just infantry that can be in skirmish formation and, while the erratum to p.107 defines the status of Light Cavalry in extended line in the Assault, Combat and Movement phases, it says nothing about the Firing phase. I'd be happy to play it the way you suggest but it's ambiguous as written and really should be cleared up. I am amazed at how sloppily worded these rules are.