pivoting cannons

[deadtorius]

A second thing that came up in our game today. A unit of Austrian Dragoons was beside a unit of French artillery, within 1 MU, the were parallel to each other and the French were facing an Austrian infantry unit that was directly to their front at Medium range. The Dragoons reformed to face the artillery, the infantry was wavering so I had left them where they were to rally them. During the French turn they French wanted to pivot their gun so they could just catch the corner of the Austrian Dragoons in their arc.
At the start of the turn they had a target to their front at medium range, the pivot would have put the corner of the Dragoons in arc at close range. The rules state you can't pivot to put a target at closer range band than you started at.

So in this case could you pivot the guns or must they stick with the target that was originally to their front?

[KendallB]

Guns can only pivot if they have a target. Because they can't change the range band the guns have to stay where they are and not pivot.

[hazelbark]

I think you need to parse this rule closely. I don't have the rule infornt of me, but as I recall...

You can pivot but you can't change the range of teh target you are aiming at. Ithink it is worded in such a way that if you are say 6.1 MU you can't pivot forward and suddenly be at less than 6 MU.

As for you specific example, I think you can pivot and if the new target is at a different range band that is fine.

If you could not then it will be the strange tactic of parking one unit at 6.1 MU directly in front of the guns while a 2nd unit walks up just to the side, hoping that the guns don't wheel in their prolong movement instead of shooting.

[Blathergut]

Artillery and Infantry can fire at any target straight ahead, however an Artillery unit may pivot first. This is to simulate the greater arc of fire that an Artillery piece has. [Explains how to pivot.] This move may not be used to reduce or extend the range band at which the Artillery unit started or to move it to a different range band of enemy capable of firing at it.

1. Artillery may first pivot before identifying targets.
2. I can't use the pivot to move into a closer (or further)(for enemy shooting) range band.

What Dead. is asking/suggesting is:

Since the intended target was out of arc, i.e., not in any band range, then the Artillery couldn't pivot to shoot at it because this is 'changing' the range band.

But then how could artillery ever pivot to take advantage of the 'greater arc of fire?'

My point was that the Artillery could pivot:

a) the range band to the infantry in front of the Artillery never changed (medium)
b) it could pivot first and then identify targets

[BrettPT]

The rule is that you cannot change a range band using a pivot. If you have a target straight ahead at long range, you cannot choose to pivot and target enemy at a closer range band.

You can indeed (under the rules as written) march a unit up to 2MU of artillery (but stay out of its arc) and avoid being shot at by placing another unit at long range in front of the enemy artillery to draw its fire.

I guess the intention here is for artillery to shoot just like any other troops, except they are granted a little leeway to shoot either side of straight ahead - to 'simulate greater arc' - but this leeway cannot be used to get an advantage (by targeting a new opponent at a better range band).

For your example, Kendall is correct. The French artillery could not pivot in the shooting phase to shoot the Dragoons as this would "reduce the range band at which the Artillery started". The artillery will need to pass a CMT and 'pivot to face enemy' as a complex move in their movement phase if they want to target the Dragoons.

Cheers
Brett

[deadtorius]

Thanks Brett that was my take on it too, that if you start with a target out front you can't suddenly pivot towards a closer target for better shooting odds.

This brings up another question, when my dragoons did the charge they start within 2 my, can the gunners still abandon the gun but don't get a shot first since chargers were less than medium range. If they stand and shoot they have to stay and fight, the cab since they don't' get a chance t run for it?

[Blathergut]

So I can pivot to bring new targets into arc if they are at the same range band as enemy in my arc before I pivot?

What if I had no enemy to front initially? As you are reading it, I still could not pivot and target new enemy because of the pivot since this would change the range band?

What if I had enemy initially at long range and another at medium range; could I then pivot to include a new, third target at medium range?

Or are you saying that artillery may never pivot to target a new enemy?

[BrettPT]

So I can pivot to bring new targets into arc if they are at the same range band as enemy in my arc before I pivot?

Yes

What if I had no enemy to front initially? As you are reading it, I still could not pivot and target new enemy because of the pivot since this would change the range band?

You could pivot to bring in a target. With no initial target, there is no initial range band to change.

I remember playing Napoleon's Battles. A movement phase in that game often started by laying down artillery templates to see the enemy lines of fire, then maneouvreing your units into the gaps and thereby avoid being shot. If memory serves, the main purpose of the pivot rule is to avoid this happening in FoGN.

What if I had enemy initially at long range and another at medium range; could I then pivot to include a new, third target at medium range?

Yes. The inital long range opponent is ignored (the medium range target has priority). Your range band is therefore medium and you can pivot to include other medium range targets.

Or are you saying that artillery may never pivot to target a new enemy?

Nope, you can pivot to target a new enemy in the same range band, or if you don't actually have a target directly in front to start with.

Cheers
Brett

[terrys]

The 'pivot' is just a rules mechinism and not a 'real' move.
If you want to 'pivot' towards the enemy to your flank, you'll have to pass a CMT and do it in your normal move.
If not - then that's the price of leaving your flank hanging out!

[bahdahbum]

There is something not clear : if you may pivot because the artillery as a broader arc of fire, the "new" target, even if at short range while the front target was at medium or long range, that new target was already at short range and in the broad arc of fire ...

[deadtorius]

No it was 2 targets at different ranges. The close target was not in arc until the guns used their free pivot, thus having both the original med target and the new close range target in arc. The med range target was the original target so you can,t pivot to hit something closer if the further target was I only one in arc originally.

[terrys]

To clarify this rule:

During the pring phase :
1) Artillery may only pivot in order to fire. It cannot pivot if has no target (after pivoting).
2) A pivot may not reduce or increase the range band betwean itself and an enemy unit that it could fire at (either before or after pivoting), or to reduce or increase the range band of an enemy unit capable of firing at it.
i.e.
Artillery may pivot to fire at a different target, at a different range band, as long as the distance between itself and any potential target does not change range bands.

The rules states:
"This move may not be used to reduce or extend the range band at which the artillery unit STARTED."
It does NOT state "at which the artillery unit is firing", which some players seem to be using.