Base removal during pursuit

[hammy]

In both the games at the club last night we had situations where the details of base removal mattered. In my game it didn't matter much and I resolved to check after the game. In the other game there was a discussion of the same issue so as my game was over by then I checked the rules.

We had been playing the rules as we were used to them which is probably a bad thing and removing a base at the end of each pursuit when pursuers maintained contact. In the second game two BG's remained in contact so I thought I would check.

On checking I discovered the following:

FIGHTING BROKEN TROOPS
There is no explicit shooting or close combat against, or by, broken troops. Damage inflicted on broken battle groups is assessed in the joint action phase.

So off to the JAP section to see what it says there

Removing bases from routing battle groups
Pursuers who are in contact with a routing enemy battle group at the end of any pursuit move:
 Inflict 1 base loss on the routing battle group for each pursuing battle group in contact with it. No other combat occurs against routers.
 Can roll to kill the enemy commander if there is one with the routing battle group (whether or not he had been fighting in the front rank in any previous close combat). Roll 2 dice. If these total 10 or more, the commander is lost. Roll only once even if there is more than one pursuing battle group in contact with the routers.

Now I am confused....

The first rule says that you only remove bases in the JAP but the rule in the JAP says that you remove bases at the end of any pursuit move.

Is this a fossil? Can it be fixed? What should it be?

Dave Ruddock also came up with a cracking bit of gorgonzola which I will let him take full credit for.

Hammy

[rbodleyscott]

The first rule says that you only remove bases in the JAP but the rule in the JAP says that you remove bases at the end of any pursuit move.

Check out the Initial Pursuits section.

 Pursuers who remain in contact with routers at the end of an initial pursuit move inflict losses (bases are removed from the routing battle group) and may inflict commander losses, as detailed in the Joint Action Phase section.

[hammy]

The first rule says that you only remove bases in the JAP but the rule in the JAP says that you remove bases at the end of any pursuit move.

Check out the Initial Pursuits section.

 Pursuers who remain in contact with routers at the end of an initial pursuit move inflict losses (bases are removed from the routing battle group) and may inflict commander losses, as detailed in the Joint Action Phase section.

OK, but what about the "Fighting broken troops" section which says it only happens in the JAP? IMO this could and im my case did lead to a distinct amount of confusion.

It seems to me that instead of

FIGHTING BROKEN TROOPS
There is no explicit shooting or close combat against, or by, broken troops. Damage inflicted on broken battle groups is assessed in the joint action phase.

Something like:

FIGHTING BROKEN TROOPS
There is no explicit shooting or close combat against, or by, broken troops. Damage inflicted on broken battle groups is assessed after each pursuit move.

This is the bit that clashes with the rest of the pursuit rules IMO.

[rogerg]

Ideally the pursuit damage inflicted section ought not to be in JAP section at all. The JAP should merely state that both sides broken troops of both sides make a further rout move and pursuits are resolved as under 'pursuing'.

Is there a need to explicitly mention 'initial pursuit'? This can lead to confusion if all rout/pursuit moves follow the same sequence of move, take casualties, test generals.

The rules need to mention who pursues and that after the first pursuit generals can move away. This would be easier to remember than including these events as part of the pursuit rules themselves. The categories then become: who pursues, commanders in routs, pursuit moves and rout moves. I suppose it is a personal thing, but I would find these distinct sections easier to remember than having to divide initial rout and initial pursuit from subsequent rout and pursuit moves.

[rbodleyscott]

It seems to me that instead of

FIGHTING BROKEN TROOPS
There is no explicit shooting or close combat against, or by, broken troops. Damage inflicted on broken battle groups is assessed in the joint action phase.

Something like:

FIGHTING BROKEN TROOPS
There is no explicit shooting or close combat against, or by, broken troops. Damage inflicted on broken battle groups is assessed after each pursuit move.

That would be clearer, it is true.