i'm surprised that mongol army is so expensive and unbalanced in 400-500 DAG games, the light and normal bow mongol cavarly is 12 price and for DAG games their volley damage is really too many low and 400-500 map games are little, a western heavy army 400-500 points easily is superior number. The strengh of monul armies was space and high number and high damage of volley historically. FOG games often get hard the skirmish armies in DAG games...
However why not get price of mongol cavarly to 5 like christian nubian archers?
ikhanid mongol
Moderators: Slitherine Core, FoG PC Moderator, NewRoSoft
Re: ikhanid mongol
The way the game works, drilled horse archers are far, far superior to archers. Mongols were known for being excellent horse archers, and as such they are to be represented with high quality units in the game. And because the game is based on a fairly balanced ruleset, it means the prices of units are always the same, regardless of the people who get them. As such, the price of a drilled mongol horse archer has to be the same as any other nation.
In FOG, drilled horse archer armies generally don't deal that much damage per salvo for their cost, but their ability to take damage, perform other duties, and most importantly, to manouver so they can both evade enemies and fire their salvo each turn is what makes them easily worth their cost.
So while it may be historically incorrect, there's not much that can be done as the game is first a balanced wargame and historically accurate only second.
In FOG, drilled horse archer armies generally don't deal that much damage per salvo for their cost, but their ability to take damage, perform other duties, and most importantly, to manouver so they can both evade enemies and fire their salvo each turn is what makes them easily worth their cost.
So while it may be historically incorrect, there's not much that can be done as the game is first a balanced wargame and historically accurate only second.
Re: ikhanid mongol
yes but for 400-500 DAG games maps are not enough large to permit manouvre and evade especially vs huge lancers army like early crusader army with 400-500 points can cover all lenght of map and outnumber mongol army and i noticed that damages of drilled cavarly in DAG games ( scenarios are different like Carrhae scenario where light parthic bow cavarly get many damage to legionaries ) against infantry is really too many low, needs many volleys to distrupt and fragmented damage. A realistic impact of mongul volleys must be a more devastanting on heavy foots infantry line ( it's same topic on low damage of british longbow off couurse ).
Re: ikhanid mongol
Play 600 point games. You get a much larger map and only slightly larger armies.
Deeter
Deeter
Re: ikhanid mongol
Hmm, what were the map point costs for different sizes? 450-550 = medium, less than 450 = small, more than 550 = large?
In my experience Medium maps are quite fine for horse archers, even of the undrilled variety. Of course, this depends on the enemy as well as your own units, but I've rarely had a problem with it really.
I think the perceived long damage of archers and longbows comes from the fact that in game they are used a bit differently than what history suggests. In FOG, you shouldn't expect a single longbowman to cause much damage to a single unit on a single turn. Instead, you focus multiple units on a single unit, and preferable withdraw if the enemy gets closer. Possibly quite unhistorical, but if such units did more damage, the whole game would have to be rewritten to compensate. I'm guessing that for every unit in the game, there's an expert historian on the forums who will find many faults with them. Either some unit is too strong or too weak, or is used completely ahistorically or is portrayed completely wrong, or any number of other things. As such correcting some of the units would cause a big outcry on part of those that weren't corrected. As such, I think the right decision is to make sure they're viable game mechanically, while still being mostly okay historically.
I'm kinda interested in this, so archita, if you want to, we can play a game, where I'm the Ilkhanids and you pick the army that you think poses the biggest problem and I'll see if I can understand. Although given I know little of mongol tactics, I would be playing them unhistorically, but in a way I feel plays to their strengths within the limits of the game mechanics.
Send me a PM if you are interested.
In my experience Medium maps are quite fine for horse archers, even of the undrilled variety. Of course, this depends on the enemy as well as your own units, but I've rarely had a problem with it really.
I think the perceived long damage of archers and longbows comes from the fact that in game they are used a bit differently than what history suggests. In FOG, you shouldn't expect a single longbowman to cause much damage to a single unit on a single turn. Instead, you focus multiple units on a single unit, and preferable withdraw if the enemy gets closer. Possibly quite unhistorical, but if such units did more damage, the whole game would have to be rewritten to compensate. I'm guessing that for every unit in the game, there's an expert historian on the forums who will find many faults with them. Either some unit is too strong or too weak, or is used completely ahistorically or is portrayed completely wrong, or any number of other things. As such correcting some of the units would cause a big outcry on part of those that weren't corrected. As such, I think the right decision is to make sure they're viable game mechanically, while still being mostly okay historically.
I'm kinda interested in this, so archita, if you want to, we can play a game, where I'm the Ilkhanids and you pick the army that you think poses the biggest problem and I'll see if I can understand. Although given I know little of mongol tactics, I would be playing them unhistorically, but in a way I feel plays to their strengths within the limits of the game mechanics.
Send me a PM if you are interested.
Re: ikhanid mongol
I think map size is small up to 400 or 450, medium up to 700 and large 750 and above.
You can create more space by setting the points to 750(or more, doesn't matter) but only buy troops for 500 or whatever you like to try.
When starting the game you get a warning message but it can be ignored. Just open the game and voila, a large map with a smaller army.
Now, back to our game Tiavals and put me out of my misery
You can create more space by setting the points to 750(or more, doesn't matter) but only buy troops for 500 or whatever you like to try.
When starting the game you get a warning message but it can be ignored. Just open the game and voila, a large map with a smaller army.
Now, back to our game Tiavals and put me out of my misery