For iPad:Needs a true "ingame tutorial" & no retina support?

[odi0n]

How did you guys miss these two?

I have never played this game before. Yet I know you guys from BA on iPad so I trust your work.

However,
You guys release no youtube videos which cost you nothing to upload simple "how to's" what is this" tutorial.

The in game tutorial which I am playing now I am sorry, but its bad (I understand you guys did not want to touch the core experience from what I read in one of your interviews over at one of the gaming sites. Perfect example here of vague & bad tutorial: I keep getting a msg saying I am running out of space - but space of what specifically? (I am sure it's the resources - but I only assume/know this because of my 4x background) The game though, does not say, so I really don't know specifically which resource could it be.

Imagine a new comer to 4x in general via iPad and this game was his introduction? You guys just put them off by not making simple info like this automatically available on screen. "Game should had said running out of space in logging? Or iron? Etc..

That said, I wish you guys would had implemented some kind of modern 2013 tutorial. King of Dragon Pass is a perfect example of an older pc game, that made it onto ipad/iphone, they kept the core values of the game the same - but they were smart/clever enough to recognize (this iPad generation may not be aware of our game *which I wasn't*) and so, they gave that game a kickasS, amazing tutorial that literally did help you and point things along the way as you played - very intuitive and friendly - thus, they sold a lot.

My thing is, you guys want to reach out to newer players of your back catalog (like me) and keep the old supporters, I agree. But when you guys don't provide the convenience for us "new players to your fold" to get up to speed it slows down the growth of what could had been a flood.

I am pretty sure there is a good game here somewhere, unfortunately, until that time when someone uploads youtube playthroughs with commentary on it so I can learn the actual game, I will then play it (for now it will just sit in my games folder and collect digital dust). I simply do not have the time to drop everything in my life to make more time out of the little time I do have to enjoy these games, to figure out a game that should had... had the right learning foundations in place from the get go.

Good luck. I'm going to back to the space 4x StartBase Orion.

[pipfromslitherine]

Sorry you aren't happy with the guidance the game gives you. Can you give additional examples of areas where you aren't sure what is expected, as that will help us work out what we can do additionally. I think the game is pretty much pick up and play in terms of the UI and the levers you have with regard to building up cities and developing your armies, but any additional feedback you might have would be valuable.

Just to check - have you read the manual which is included ingame via the Help button on the main menu - it is pretty comprehensive.

With regard to your specifics, resources are shown on the city and campaign screens, with your stock, storage space, and income. E.g. on the bottom right of the main campaign map you can see the figures for the 3 ingame resource types.

Cheers

Pip

[IainMcNeil]

Creating some tutorial videos could be a good plan but for now have a look at these AAR's:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41362

[arcticpost]

What the heck? I just bought the game because I'm so happy with BA for iPad I thought I'd try this too. And being willing to read the manual and suffer some "bumps and bruises," until I learn Legion I must say, as a newcomer to the game I happen to appreciate manuals. Which are easy to go back to and find what you need in them.

And yeah, a YouTube video may cost "nothing" to upload but if its going to help it'll need a script and audio/video editing, and a camera, lighting, etc etc etc so your "nothing" ends up costing.

Maybe they could get rid of the manual in the game, prepare a series of videos as a tutorial and then charge for the videos. Call me crazy but I expect to work some to learn a game....

To end up not liking a game after putting some effort into learning it is fine, but to say you're just not interested in spending the time to learn because you aren't getting your hand held, is a little much.

[Coreysr]

I agree, I've never played the game before but playing the game expecting to loose and reading the manual I'm starting to get the hang of it.

[IainMcNeil]

We're going to look in to the tutorial videos idea as it will help promote the game and also explain some of the mechanics to new users. They take a bit of time to do nicely and we don't have a studio set up to record the voice over so its a little tricky, but we'll see what we can do.

[henri511]

I still have the pdf 80-page Spartan manual for the Mac version (the game is pretty much the same as Legion), and it is available for free on the web (I think it was at Filefront, but my memory is not so good). I don't have the Ipad game yet, so I don't know how complete is the help file.

Henri

[smmoulder]

(Updated: I found some answers by poking around with the UI and a few by re-reading the manual. Would still prefer a more comprehensive tutorial, but glad that some answers can be dug up)
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I've just spent most of my afternoon with Legion. And that is obviously the first bit of feedback - I wouldn't have spent that time if I wasn't having some fun.

However, the points about the tutorial and learning to play Legion are not without some merit. The tutorial that is provided only gives the barest introduction to the mechanics of how to do things. It doesn't explain much of the UI and it doesn't lead players down a path of how they should probably be trying to play.

For me, that meant a lot of trial and error. Fortunately I've been playing games for many decades (board, computer, console, mobile), so I'm comfortable with quitting and restarting a game as I slowly learn how it is intended to be played. And that is what I wound up doing here, probably a half dozen times. And yes, there is a manual included, but reading a manual doesn't quite connect directly with playing the way an integrated tutorial does.

Being a game developer myself, I know how frustrating it is to be told something isn't "good" or is "obscure" without any specifics. So here are a few specific items for the Slitherine folks to think about (all feedback based on the Unification of Italy scenario only):
- Building info. This is displayed at the bottom of the UI when you select that building (either in the city display or to build it). It took me a few restarts and probably 2 hours of game play to find this information. I'm so used to context help displaying immediately by the thing it is describing that my eyes literally could not see this vital information down there. That had me playing blind for quite a while.
- The manual told me that I would need to assign manpower to my structures. The game does not provide any cues or reminders and the tutorial does not mention this. Manpower allocation is essential to playing correctly and I wasted a couple games not understanding this dynamic. I would absolutely put that in a tutorial.
- The icons for manpower assignments are very dark and kind of hard to spot on the city display. Another reason I didn't understand this mechanic at first. Even after I did, it was pretty hard to pick these out of the display, especially in the Spring with newly built structures. I learned to carefully go through each city and play "hidden objects" to pick these out. I would suggest a bright outline for empty manpower slots. Or an optional nudge from the UI (one players could turn off). Nudge would be that a city has empty building slots and available workers.
- I am playing on an iPad Mini. This makes some of these issues more challenging, of course. But the reality is the Mini is selling well and you'll have to test on it and account for visuals and touch-targeting on the Mini's smaller screen. I found I could play reasonably well on my Mini, but much of the game is right on the margin of being readable/touchable in this form factor.
- I really have no idea how I should construct an effective army. I had convinced myself to build one with frontline legions (4) and/or Pretorians backed by archers. But I seem to be losing now because my opponent's armies are simply larger. I've seen a structure (Quartermaster) that I could have built in just ONE of my cities that might address this. But now I've lost that city to my opponent and It appears the game is now hopeless. And even though I've done better this game and it's gone for quite a bit longer then before, I think I've lost and should restart again. This isn't my favorite way to learn proper strategy and tactics. (Update While I remain perplexed about the relationship between forts and barracks and squad size, I now know that the Quartermaster is an upgrade to Barracks. Still don't know when I get to build Barracks and when not except that I need a full City.)
- It appears there is no way to tear down existing structures to replace them with better ones which would avoid players boxing themselves in based on early game choices. Update: It's there in the UI in the lower left in the city view. A little counter-intuitive to use - it acts as a modal toggle so when you tap it, you are now in "delete" mode and any structure you tap on will be targeted for deletion. This remains true even if you switch to another city while in the city viewing mode. So a little too easy to delete something inadvertently when using this function. Still it does exist and that means I am not stuck with poor decisions made very early in the game.
- I noticed if I've moved an army its full movement, I can no longer double-tap it to re-arrange the units inside that army. Not a huge deal, but I don't believe that is correct. I should be able to shuffle an army's constituent units at any time, regardless of movement points. This is minor.
- It might be in the manual, but I really have no idea what each type of unit does, its strengths/weaknesses, etc. I would love to see someinfo when I buy a unit. Perhaps it's at the bottom of the screen again and I'm overlooking it? I know the Roman armies were built around legions and that the Pretorian guards should also be powerful. And cavalry was always problem for foot troops. But exactly how the various light units and archers figure into this... No idea. Update: It is at the bottom of the screen. As to when and how to use the other unit types... The manual describes the impact of terrain on different types, but beyond that I remain baffled. Given that manpower is my main constraint, why wouldn't I focus on Pretorians exclusively? I'm looking for some sort of rock-paper-scissors interaction ala infantry-cavalry-artillery in Napoleonic warfare. But I just don't see it here. Archers seem very ineffective. Auxilia are just crappy legions. Etc. I'm just looking to understand the designer's intent here, not interested in a historical debate.
- Does terrain matter? It slows down strategic movement, but I have no idea what it does on the battlefield (beyond impacting movement again). Update: The manual partially addresses this, but in such vague terms I don't know what to think. I really want to see some numbers I guess. Or something concrete like "Legions fight at half strength in rough terrain".

Hopefully this is helpful. I came here looking for some tips. The game is a bit harder than it is probably intended to be and I hope the forums here will make up for deficiencies in in-game information. That probably sounds harsh, so let me reiterate that I am enjoying the game and have no regrets about my purchase. There is a lot of potential there. Hidden, but I can tell it's in there.