Fog Base Size Dilemma ...

Carthage · Post by **Carthage** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:46 am

Here is my dilemma; I am new to Historical and ancient gaming in particular, but am currently in the process of painting a Carthaginian army in 15mm. I have no rule sets and am so intrigued by FoG I am going to wait for it. Trouble is I have no way to know how to base my men or base sizes since I do not have the beta rules. I have beta tested many PC games and am well aware of NDAs, but is there any way to at least get an excerpt from the section on basing?

Bill

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:47 am

Carthage wrote:Here is my dilemma; I am new to Historical and ancient gaming in particular, but am currently in the process of painting a Carthaginian army in 15mm. I have no rule sets and am so intrigued by FoG I am going to wait for it. Trouble is I have no way to know how to base my men or base sizes since I do not have the beta rules. I have beta tested many PC games and am well aware of NDAs, but is there any way to at least get an excerpt from the section on basing?

Here is the base size table. Sorry about the loss of formatting, but hopefully you should be able to work it out. If you find you don't like FoG after all, several other rules sets use the same basing.

African (Libyan) spearmen and Greek/Italian hoplites are heavy foot.
Spanish scutarii and Italian javelinmen are medium foot.
Gallic warriors can be heavy or medium foot.
Numidian cavalry are Light Horse
Gallic cavalry are Cavalry.
Spanish cavalry can be Cavalry or Light Horse
Numidian foot and Balearic Slingers are light Foot.

BASE SIZES
Troop Type Figures per base Depth of base: 15mm [25/28mm]
Heavy foot 4 15mm [20mm]
Medium foot 3 or 4 20mm [30mm]
Light foot 2 20mm [30mm]
Mob 5-8 30mm [40mm]
Cavalry 3 30mm [40mm]
Light horse 2 30mm [40mm]
Camelry 3 30mm [40mm]
Knights 3 30mm [40mm]
Cataphracts 3 or 4 30mm [40mm]
Chariots 1 40mm [80mm]
Elephants 1 40mm [80mm]
Artillery 1 40mm [80mm]
Battle wagons 1 80mm [120mm]
Commander As required* 40mm [60mm] or less
Fortifications Models of the defences 15mm [20mm]
Supply camp This will be a selection of tents, wagons etc. It is a rectangle 120mm [180mm] by 80mm [160mm]. It can be fortified if allowed in the army list.

sagji · Post by **sagji** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:58 am

Base widths are 40mm for 15mm [ 60mm for 25/28mm.]

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:26 am

sagji wrote:Base widths are 40mm for 15mm [ 60mm for 25/28mm.]

Ooops, sorry, yes, I forgot the most important (vital) part.

Carthage · Post by **Carthage** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:50 am

Thank you ! ...and your customer care factor is already a plus for FoG in my mind! Is there any chance of a FoG beta session at Fall-In?

Bill

Carthage · Post by **Carthage** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:58 am

I forgot one other question/clarification. So is command a single unit, or does it simply follow the basing of the like units. In other words if I have a some Celtiberian Cav units (3 Horses on a 40*30), what would the command unit be composed of (3 on a 40*30 or 1 on a 40*40 or less))?

Thanks again for the help,

Bill

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:06 pm

Carthage wrote:I forgot one other question/clarification. So is command a single unit, or does it simply follow the basing of the like units. In other words if I have a some Celtiberian Cav units (3 Horses on a 40*30), what would the command unit be composed of (3 on a 40*30 or 1 on a 40*40 or less))?

It is optional. So far we have been play-testing using our existing armies, so most of our commanders have the normal number of figures per base for cavalry (or whatever). However, the rules allow you to make mini-dioramas if you like.

The commander bases are really only markers for the commander's position and are assumed not to occupy any significant space on the table. Armies can have up to 4 Commanders. In a Carthaginian army I would suggest basing them as cavalry - but possibly with less figures per base - whatever looks good to you.

Carthage wrote:Thank you ! ...and your customer care factor is already a plus for FoG in my mind! Is there any chance of a FoG beta session at Fall-In?

That will depend on whether there are local Beta testers who wish to set up a demo.

---------------------------

Incidentally Carthaginians (and Romans) are the armies used for most of the examples and diagrams in the rule book, as well as many of the photographs.

Carthage · Post by **Carthage** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:43 pm

Excellent, thank you for the prompt reply.

Incidentally Carthaginians (and Romans) are the armies used for most of the examples and diagrams in the rule book, as well as many of the photographs.

OK, OK...you sold me...2 copies on pre-order!

Bill

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:55 pm

Carthage wrote:Excellent, thank you for the prompt reply.

Incidentally Carthaginians (and Romans) are the armies used for most of the examples and diagrams in the rule book, as well as many of the photographs.
OK, OK...you sold me...2 copies on pre-order!

Bill

Way to go Richard! Do you get a commission for each set you sell?

Marc

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:07 pm

babyshark wrote:
Carthage wrote: OK, OK...you sold me...2 copies on pre-order!
Way to go Richard! Do you get a commission for each set you sell?

Marc

I certainly hope so.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:04 pm

Carthage wrote: Is there any chance of a FoG beta session at Fall-In?

Bill

I just realized that I will not be arodn for Fall-In so it devolves to Babyshark or others. Bill where do you live?

Carthage · Post by **Carthage** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:52 pm

Hazelbark, just outside of DC on the VA side.

Bill

shall · Post by **shall** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:53 am

Sounds like a Dan and Bill get together is in order

Si

Carthage · Post by **Carthage** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:03 pm

Sounds like a Dan and Bill get together is in order

If it involves Ancients (..and FoG especially

) I am up for it!

OK while I am at it....are the beta Army list still NDA? I am trying to get together an order for more figs and am wondering what a small say 600-800 point Carthage army woudl look like. No beta and no rule sets until I get FoG is killing me !!!!

Cheers all,

Bill

Carthage · Post by **Carthage** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:05 pm

OK so is this correct?

Heavy foot 4 15mm [20mm]
Medium foot 3 or 4 20mm [30mm]
Light foot 2 20mm [30mm]

Base widths are 40mm for 15mm [ 60mm for 25/28mm.]

Meaning in 15mm heavy foot is 40*15 with 4 men, but Medium Foot with the same or fewer men is 40*20 and light foot with 2 men is also 40*20?

Why the smaller base for heavy foot? and why so large a base for light?

Bill

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:01 pm

Carthage wrote:Meaning in 15mm heavy foot is 40*15 with 4 men, but Medium Foot with the same or fewer men is 40*20 and light foot with 2 men is also 40*20?

Correct

Why the smaller base for heavy foot? and why so large a base for light?

Because the HF are in a tighter formation, the LF are in a loose formation, it looks more "realistic" and creates an easy visual reminder of which type is which.

I am trying to get together an order for more figs and am wondering what a small say 600-800 point Carthage army woudl look like. No beta and no rule sets until I get FoG is killing me !!!!

I hope to get permission from Slitherine to release the Carthaginian "starter army" - unfortunately they are not available for a few days.

neilhammond · Post by **neilhammond** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:03 pm

The sizes you calculate are correct. I'd add the following:

Generals are on a 40x40 base, although if you base them as cavalry on 40x30mm bases that's fine.

Units (Battle Groups) consist of an even number of bases.

There is no concept of a command base like, for example, Fire and Fury. However it always looks good if there is an office and standard included in a unit.

The basing sizes are partially hisotical from other popular rules sets. 15mm depth for heavy foot is about the minimum you can get away with to physically fit figs on. The ratuional for lights is they operate in a loose "cloud" so a deeper base plus less figs looks reasonably representative.

Neil

Carthage · Post by **Carthage** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:19 pm

So optimally if I did HF *4 MF *3 and LF *2 it is legal (in a techninal manner) and very visual for troop identification...I Like It !!

Bill

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:46 pm

Carthage wrote:So optimally if I did HF *4 MF *3 and LF *2 it is legal (in a techninal manner) and very visual for troop identification...I Like It !!

Yup.

To put you out of your misery, here is a reasonable 800 point Carthaginian army circa 218 BC (The Trebia)

Hannibal (Inspired Commander)
Hasdrubal (Troop Commander)
Mago (Troop Commander)
2 x 8 bases of African Spearmen: HF, Average, Drilled, Protected, Offensive Spearmen
2 x 8 bases of Gallic warriors: HF (or MF), Average, Undrilled, Protected, Impact Foot, Swordsmen [Probably better as HF]
2 x 6 bases of Spanish scutarii: MF, Average, Undrilled, Protected, Impact Foot, Swordsmen
1 x 2 bases of Elephants: Elephants, Average, Undrilled
1 x 4 bases of Gallic cavalry: Cavalry, Superior, Undrilled, Armoured, Light Spear, Swordsmen
1 x 4 bases of Gallic cavalry: Cavalry, Superior, Undrilled, Protected, Light Spear, Swordsmen
1 x 4 bases of Spanish cavalry: Cavalry, Superior, Undrilled, Protected, Light Spear, Swordsmen
2 x 4 bases of Numidian cavalry: Light Horse, Average, Undrilled, Unprotected, Javelins, Light Spear
1 x 6 bases of Numidian foot: LF, Average, Undrilled, Unprotected, Javelins, Light Spear
1 x 6 bases of Balearic slingers: LF, Superior, Undrilled, Unprotected, Sling

Carthage · Post by **Carthage** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:54 am

Thanks for the list!!!....looks like my order needs to be a tad bigger than I expected. But hey who does'nt like lots of lead on the way!!

Bill

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