Unit sizes in V2

[Vespasian28]

Just wondering if the perceived wisdom about unit sizes will change under V2?

Specifically, in the Classical Greek list Spartan Peers are usually taken in 6's. Is this likely to change?

Are we also likely to see more mounted units in 6's rather than 4's?

[babyshark]

Just wondering if the perceived wisdom about unit sizes will change under V2?

Specifically, in the Classical Greek list Spartan Peers are usually taken in 6's. Is this likely to change?

Are we also likely to see more mounted units in 6's rather than 4's?

I doubt we see more mounted in 6s. But I do expect that we will see larger BGs of foot than in v1. There may very well be more protected CV on the board, too.

Marc

[grahambriggs]

I'd usually take Greek hoplites of whatever flavour in 8s in V1 - three wide. I found that with sixes three wide was too risky and going two wide three deep was a bit too expensive.

It'll be interesting to see what works out in v2. Three deep will help morale given the -1 is now only 1HP2B. However will it make the army too narrow?

[ravenflight]

I'd usually take Greek hoplites of whatever flavour in 8s in V1 - three wide. I found that with sixes three wide was too risky and going two wide three deep was a bit too expensive.

It'll be interesting to see what works out in v2. Three deep will help morale given the -1 is now only 1HP2B. However will it make the army too narrow?

I too run a lot of offensive spear armies, but am thinking that the day of the compulsory 8 (in the same way you run them) MAY be less of a problem. You don't lose as much by losing 1 rank of spear any more (I don't think).

[grahambriggs]

Oh that's a good point - might make the spears hang around longer. I suppose it depend whether this is an area of the battlefield that you want to break through in (in which case I want to ride out bad rolls and break through hence three deep) or a holding role, where you might as well be two deep as you'll often be overlapped.

[batesmotel]

Just wondering if the perceived wisdom about unit sizes will change under V2?

Specifically, in the Classical Greek list Spartan Peers are usually taken in 6's. Is this likely to change?

Are we also likely to see more mounted units in 6's rather than 4's?

I doubt we see more mounted in 6s. But I do expect that we will see larger BGs of foot than in v1. There may very well be more protected CV on the board, too.

Marc

The only mounted that would make sense in 6s would be lancers. Especially for protected or unprotected lancers that may be worthwhile since they'd still be fairly inexpensive BGs.

Certainly it doesn't work well for any cavalry that would want to be able to evade in one rank since 6 is just too wide to be workable.

Chris

[stenic]

TCs only commanding a battle line of 2 BGs may create a move for BGs increases in size to enable battle lines to get about. It'll help greatly offset the potential -1 for losing Impact and spreads the re-roll love across more troops.

Of course it could just mean more FCs and ICs are used instead.

[grahambriggs]

LH in 6s could be used more. They'll still be cumbersome. But it'll now be hard for a 4 of LH to get enough hits to force a test at -1.

[gozerius]

I have never shied away from cav lancers in 6s, and with the new rear support rules, they are easier to support. Carolingians can support 2 BGs armored superior with 4 protected superior without the silly columns.
I will probably field more Low Countries Offensive spear in 10s as well.

[Polkovnik]

[ You don't lose as much by losing 1 rank of spear any more (I don't think).

Could you explain that please. You still need two ranks of spear to get the POA.

All I can think of is that if you are disrupted protected spearmen and facing an armored / sword opponent you will be on -POA whether in one or two ranks, rather than --POA if in one rank previously.

[madaxeman]

[ You don't lose as much by losing 1 rank of spear any more (I don't think).

Could you explain that please. You still need two ranks of spear to get the POA.

All I can think of is that if you are disrupted protected spearmen and facing an armored / sword opponent you will be on -POA whether in one or two ranks, rather than --POA if in one rank previously.

I think that's it. Still, "armored / sword opponent" covers basically all cavalry you might be likely to come across and fight in the game, and a lot of the infantry too

[ravenflight]

[ You don't lose as much by losing 1 rank of spear any more (I don't think).

Could you explain that please. You still need two ranks of spear to get the POA.

All I can think of is that if you are disrupted protected spearmen and facing an armored / sword opponent you will be on -POA whether in one or two ranks, rather than --POA if in one rank previously.

I'm not 100% on the rules at the moment as I've been spending too much time FoG:Ring it instead, but from memory you dont get a POA for being a single rank of spear, so people like Armoured Heavy weapon, Armoured Sword etc will not be ++

++ is a death knell because it would ALSO be the overlapped side sometimes which means you're getting 3-4 hits against them making it nearly impossible to beat the enemy even if you roll well with the rest of the BG. For this reason people would really worry about putting out a single rank of spear. At least now I'd TRY it. Might find things are just the same, but I find FoG tends to REALLY punish you with POA's. If they get more and better dice they get more and bigger hits making you test worse. This SEEMS less problematic.

[Polkovnik]

[ You don't lose as much by losing 1 rank of spear any more (I don't think).

Could you explain that please. You still need two ranks of spear to get the POA.

All I can think of is that if you are disrupted protected spearmen and facing an armored / sword opponent you will be on -POA whether in one or two ranks, rather than --POA if in one rank previously.

I think that's it. Still, "armored / sword opponent" covers basically all cavalry you might be likely to come across and fight in the game, and a lot of the infantry too

Yes but things are only different from V1 against those opponents if you are disrupted, and if you are disrupted and a POA down it's pretty certain you're going to lose anyway.

I don't think the V2 changes are suddenly going to make people run protected spear two deep instead of three deep.

[Scrumpy]

How are people going to deploy 10s, 3 or 4 wide?

[timmy1]

2 - mine are Swiss Pike...

[gozerius]

How are people going to deploy 10s, 3 or 4 wide?

My Low Countries Offensive spear are deploying 3 wide, with light arty between BGs. Then, when the enemy has been softened up by the ribaudaqins, the boys charge forward, feeding bases in to close the gaps in the subsequent melee.

[hazelbark]

What happens if your opponent manuvers?

[gozerius]

That's what the longbowmen, crossbowmen, halbardiers, and men at arms are supposed to deal with.