Vypuero's House Rules - or Diplomacy by choice

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:18 pm

Diplomacy House Rules

Occupation Garrison: In each Occupied Nation, 1 Unit must always remain in the Capital City at all times after conquest.

East Front Garrison: In addition, Germany must maintain 1 Unit in each of the occupied Polish Cities and Konigsberg (East Prussia) until such time as they are at war with Russia.

French North Africa: The Garrisons in French North Africa may not be removed.

French Fleet: The French Fleet in the Atlantic may only be moved when it can attack any German units at sea or in French or Belgian Territory, or in order to support French forces going to or in Norway. The Mediterranean Fleet must remain in port until Italy is at war with the Allies.

Anglo-French Cooperation – Until such time as Italy is at war with the Allies, the British may only deploy one ground unit in France (BEF). They may not base air or naval units in French Territory, nor may France do so in the UK.

Finland – Finnish Force may only operate within 6 hexes of the Finnish Border.

Hungary – Hungary must keep 1 Army in Budapest at all times. The Hungarians may operate in Poland, Yugoslavia, or Russia.

Rumania – Rumania keep 1 Army in Bucharest at all times. The Rumanians may operate in Yugoslavia or Russia.

Bulgaria – Bulgaria must keep 1 Army in Sofia at all times. The Bulgarians may operate in Yugoslavia, Greece, or Turkey.

davetheroad · Post by **davetheroad** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:14 pm

The Low countries DOW
If the axis player DOW's Holland he must DOW Belgium on the same turn, however he may DOW Belgium without a DOW on Holland.
Historically the Belgian reaction to a invasion of Holland would probably beto invite the western allies to implement their 'Dyle Plan'

Garrisons in Russia
If playing PBEM or TCPIP the axis player should garrison each captured city in the Soviet Union. This forces the Axis player to direct some forces to anti partisan operations although partisans do not appear in PBEM/TCPIP.

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:23 pm

Dave I agree with both. This will make the game a lot harder on the Axis, don't you think?

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:24 pm

Oh Partisans can appear in PBEM, just not TCP/IP

Barthheart · Post by **Barthheart** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:25 pm

davetheroad wrote:The Low countries DOW
... although partisans do not appear in PBEM/TCPIP.

Ummm.... I've had partisans appear in my game PBEM with IDG. My Russians are creating about one every third turn.

davetheroad · Post by **davetheroad** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:11 pm

I never saw partisans when playing as axis TCPIP and presumed it also applied to PBEM. Also, IIRC a developer said they did not appear in such games?

Using a joint low countries DOW will make it more difficult for the germans but IMO attacking and digesting holland first is just too gamey.

For russia maybe the garrisons should only be required for major cities, e.g. Leningrad, Minsk, Kiev etc

Balkan garrisons are interesting, especially if Bucharest is left without one. That russian fleet in the Black Sea means they have the capability of launching and supplying a surprise raid on Rumania. It would be very embarassing having Rumania surrender.

Dave

SMK-at-work · Post by **SMK-at-work** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:27 pm

Good rules I think.

Presumably Hungarians, Romanians and Bulgarians are also allowed to operate in Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria respectively?!

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:58 am

Yes - that was assumed! Not in other nations, though, so no Hungarians tooling around in Rumania. Never would have happened.

davetheroad · Post by **davetheroad** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:04 am

vypuero wrote:Diplomacy House Rules
Anglo-French Cooperation – Until such time as Italy is at war with the Allies, the British may only deploy one ground unit in France (BEF). They may not base air or naval units in French Territory, nor may France do so in the UK.

With a few games under my belt I see a problem with this rule. It takes many turns to get units to Egypt and a cunning allied player will transport a unit to France, rail it to Marseille and ship to Egypt from there, BEFORE italy enters the war. This sounds gamey but with the rampant italian fleet and lack of air support for the allies you have to resort to desperate measures!

Dave

davetheroad · Post by **davetheroad** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:08 am

Of course historically the BEF was at least 3 corps of infantry plus a garrison unit so if you are following the 3 divisions/corps idea you have to allow this?

Dave

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:14 pm

The BEF is larger than I thought, so you could be right. Originally I figured it would be the Motorized unit, but I suppose it can be supplemented by say another Infantry Corps. I think you can get units into Egypt just by transporting them by ship without any issues. I can get the Canadians and the Motor corps there if I want to.

vveedd · Post by **vveedd** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:32 am

I always liked house rules, especially if they are from Third Reich game.

Still too much house rules in most cases means that game itself need more work. Anglo-French corporation, Poland garrisons, minor units movement restrictions are great house rules but this rules should be implemented in game as game default. In next patch perhaps?

davetheroad · Post by **davetheroad** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:19 am

A brutal garrison rule could be coded, e.g.

Every few turns check occupied cities.
for each unoccupied city place a partisan unit, or use a %age chance of appearing.

This would have the advantage that it would work even when the country had surrendered.

Dave

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:13 pm

I like Dave's idea as well, but it should be optional because it is a more advanced feature that some beginning and intermediate gamers may not be interested in.

We should try a game. Oh and as to the BEF, the thing is that the scale is really somewhat higher than a Corps as it now stands. Germany had 100 infantry divisions in 1939, that is enough for 25-30 corps but we don't have that. So the scale is different. I am actually planning on an analysis soon regarding that, but their decision was they wanted a game with fewer units. It is not a bad idea at all, but maybe for us hard core players a higher unit density would be good to have.

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:54 pm

Diplomacy House Rules

Occupation Garrison: In each Occupied Nation, 1 Unit must always remain in the Capital City at all times after conquest.

East Front Garrison: In addition, Germany must maintain 1 Unit in each of the occupied Polish Cities and Konigsberg (East Prussia) until such time as they are at war with Russia. This rule must be implemented on the Turn following the surrender of Poland (it is not necessary during the conquest of Poland).

Occupied Russia: Cities in Russia proper, but excluding Riga, Tallin, and Brest-Litovsk, which are not actually Russian cities, must also have a unit in them at all times once they are Occupied.

French North Africa: The Garrisons in French North Africa may not be removed.

French Fleet: The French Fleet in the Atlantic may only be moved when it can attack any German units at sea or in French or Belgian Territory, or in order to support French forces going to or in Norway. The Mediterranean Fleet must remain in port until Italy is at war with the Allies.

Anglo-French Cooperation – Until such time as Italy is at war with the Allies, the British may only deploy up to two ground units in France (BEF) and 1 garrison unit. They may not base air or naval units in French Territory, nor may France do so in the UK.

Finland – Finnish Force may only operate within 6 hexes of the Finnish Border.

Hungary – Hungary must keep 1 Army in Budapest at all times. The Hungarians may operate in Poland, Yugoslavia, or Russia.

Rumania – Rumania keep 1 Army in Bucharest at all times. The Rumanians may operate in Yugoslavia or Russia.

Bulgaria – Bulgaria must keep 1 Army in Sofia at all times. The Bulgarians may operate in Yugoslavia, Greece, or Turkey.

DoW on Netherlands – You must also make a DoW against Belgium if you declare war on the Netherlands. However, you may make a DoW against Belgium only and the Netherlands will remain Neutral.

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:59 pm

French Garrisons - France must maintain its Garrisons in the Maginot and Marseilles until Italy enters the war.

vveedd · Post by **vveedd** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:35 pm

Occupation Garrison: In each Occupied Nation, 1 Unit must always remain in the Capital City at all times after conquest. - I AGREE.

East Front Garrison: In addition, Germany must maintain 1 Unit in each of the occupied Polish Cities and Konigsberg (East Prussia) until such time as they are at war with Russia. This rule must be implemented on the Turn following the surrender of Poland (it is not necessary during the conquest of Poland). - I AGREE

Occupied Russia: Cities in Russia proper, but excluding Riga, Tallin, and Brest-Litovsk, which are not actually Russian cities, must also have a unit in them at all times once they are Occupied. - DON'T AGREE. IT IS TO AXIS PLAYER CHOICE. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE RUSSIAN PARTISANS.

French North Africa: The Garrisons in French North Africa may not be removed. - I AGREE.

French Fleet: The French Fleet in the Atlantic may only be moved when it can attack any German units at sea or in French or Belgian Territory, or in order to support French forces going to or in Norway. The Mediterranean Fleet must remain in port until Italy is at war with the Allies. -STRONGLY AGAINST IT. THIS IS GREAT LIMITATION FOR ALLIED PLAYER STRATEGIES .

Anglo-French Cooperation – Until such time as Italy is at war with the Allies, the British may only deploy up to two ground units in France (BEF) and 1 garrison unit. They may not base air or naval units in French Territory, nor may France do so in the UK. -I AGREE.

Finland – Finnish Force may only operate within 6 hexes of the Finnish Border. -I AGREE.

Hungary – Hungary must keep 1 Army in Budapest at all times. The Hungarians may operate in Poland, Yugoslavia, or Russia. -DON'T AGREE FOR 1 ARMY IN BUDAPEST. ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY LIMITATION FOR AXIS PLAYER STRATEGIES. AGREE ABOUT OPERATING LIMITATION.

Rumania – Rumania keep 1 Army in Bucharest at all times. The Rumanians may operate in Yugoslavia or Russia. -SAME AS HUNGARY

Bulgaria – Bulgaria must keep 1 Army in Sofia at all times. The Bulgarians may operate in Yugoslavia, Greece, or Turkey. -SAME AS HUNGARY AND RUMANIA

DoW on Netherlands – You must also make a DoW against Belgium if you declare war on the Netherlands. However, you may make a DoW against Belgium only and the Netherlands will remain Neutral. -STRONGLY AGAINST IT. THIS IS GREAT LIMITATION FOR AXIS PLAYER STRATEGIES .

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:36 pm

Well - in TCP/IP there are no partisans. So we could eliminate that in PBEM.

The Hungarians never sent their whole army into Russia, only a portion of it.

Rumanians did not operate in Poland

Bulgarians never fought against Russia - they refused to do so.

The French would not have "wasted" their fleet because they knew they would be conquered, which the Allied player knows. It was expensive and they did not just send people out on senseless suicide missions.

Reason for the Belgium rule is that Belgium would have joined the Allies had Germany attacked Neutral Netherlands, or at the very least, would have fully allowed the allies to use its territory and cooperate militarily, so it amounts to the same thing.

vveedd · Post by **vveedd** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:02 pm

Well - in TCP/IP there are no partisans. So we could eliminate that in PBEM. OK

The Hungarians never sent their whole army into Russia, only a portion of it. NEVERTHELESS, NUMBER OF MINOR UNITS ARE LITTLE AT THIS GAME AND WE DON'T WANT SIMULATION OF REAL WWII IN THIS GAME, WANT WE? FOR THAT WE HAVE HISTORY BOOKS

Rumanians did not operate in Poland SAME AS ABOVE

Bulgarians never fought against Russia - they refused to do so. SAME AS ABOVE

The French would not have "wasted" their fleet because they knew they would be conquered, which the Allied player knows. It was expensive and they did not just send people out on senseless suicide missions. THIS THEN SHOULD BE RESOLVED IN DIFFERENT WAY - SOME OF REMAINING FLEET SHOULD BECOME FREE FRENCH AFTER FALL OF FRANCE. THIS IS POINTLESS RULE IN GAME WHEN PLAYER KNOW THAT FRANCE WILL BE CONQUERED AND THIS IS FACT. THERE IS NO SMART WAY TO AVOID THIS.

Reason for the Belgium rule is that Belgium would have joined the Allies had Germany attacked Neutral Netherlands, or at the very least, would have fully allowed the allies to use its territory and cooperate militarily, so it amounts to the same thing. MAYBE IT WILL, MAYBE IT WILL NOT. YOU CAN SAY THE SAME FOR NETHERLANDS IN VICE VERSA SITUATION. FOR GAMEPLAY PURPOSIES IT IS THE BEST AS IT IS NOW. WHEN GAME WILL HAVE REAL DIPLOMACY IN THIS SITUATION YOU WILL HAVE 85-95% PROBABILITY THAT THEY WILL JOIN ALLIES

DID YOU GET MY TURN?

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:28 pm

These are my house rules for a more historic game, they are not game rules but options for people who want a more historic game that can be implemented voluntarily

Vypuero's House Rules - or Diplomacy by choice

Vypuero's House Rules - or Diplomacy by choice

Re: Vypuero's House Rules - or Diplomacy by choice

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