Renaissance Advice needed please

[stockwellpete]

A couple of years ago I swapped some of my medieval 15mm figures for some 6mm Renaissance ones and I have finally got round to sorting them out. The thing is - I am completely clueless about Renaissance warfare at the moment (I am hoping there will eventually be a FOG PC game) and I have very little idea about what I have here or how the figures should be based under the FOG system (for 6mm, I mean).

I have done an inventory today and I have the following figures

80 stands (or bases) of pikemen (6 figures to a stand/base) that I have de-based already because I didn't like the way they were set up. What size bases should I put them on? I have surplus Essex bases at 40x40, 40x30, 40x20 and 40x15.

45 stands of arquebusiers/musketeers on very thin bases (smaller than 40x15) comprising . . .
43 stands of musketeers marching, preparing to fire, and firing, 8 soldiers per stand
2 stands of musketeers preparing to fire, 5 figures per stand

56 stands of horsemen all on 40x20 size bases comprising of the following . . .
2 stands of armoured lancers, some flags, ten riders per stand
5 stands of armoured horsemen, just riding, no lances, some flags, ten riders per stand
3 stands of armoured lancers, some flags, seven riders per stand
11 stands of armoured lancers, no flags, six riders per stand
5 stands of armoured lancers and other riders (50% of each), no flags, six riders per stand
12 stands of unarmoured firearms riders, six riders per stand
18 stands of armoured lancers, no flags, five riders per stand

15 stands of artillery, the guns on 40x40 bases
4 stands of large cannon
3 stands of smaller cannon
8 stands of horse in harness (on very thin bases)

7 stands of camps/tents on 40/40 bases

So what do you think? Basically I want to make 2 standard, medium sized armies for 16th century warfare encompassing all the main troop types - and then if there are any troops over to use them as allies. I suppose the main armies are the French and Spanish first, followed by the German Imperial army next. I am not even too sure of all the history at this stage. The French invasion of Italy would be of interest to me and anything involving the Spanish. I am not sure if these figures would be suitable for the 17thC Thirty Years War or English Civil War? Their uniforms come in many different colours but I would think they are probably all meant to be 16th century.

Any suggestions as to how I might sort them out would be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance

[madaxeman]

Well, 2 answers.

1. As long as you are fighting matched pairs and all the base sizes (for infantry and then mounted) are the same it shouldn't matter
2. Standard 15mm bases stuffed with 6mm figures look really cool, so:
- 40mm wide by 20mm deep for foot
- 40mm x 30mm for mounted
- 40mm x 40m for guns and dragoons
..which will also allow you to play against people with 15mm armies

In the era you are looking at Horse are almost always in units of 4 bases but can be 6, infantry are usually in big units of maybe 8-12 pike+2 halberds, shot only units are 6-8 shot, or you can get mixed units of Tercios of 6-8 pike and 6-8 shot. Dragoons if you have them are units of 2-4 dragoons, Guns are in 2's or 3,s

[stockwellpete]

Well, 2 answers.

Thanks for your reply, madaxeman. Can you clarify a few things for me as I have never played TT before, apart from a few DBA games a while back?

1. As long as you are fighting matched pairs and all the base sizes (for infantry and then mounted) are the same it shouldn't matter

What does "matched pairs" mean, please? Both armies using the same scale, perhaps?

2. Standard 15mm bases stuffed with 6mm figures look really cool, so:
- 40mm wide by 20mm deep for foot
- 40mm x 30mm for mounted
- 40mm x 40m for guns and dragoons
..which will also allow you to play against people with 15mm armies

OK. So there are three base sizes to use. That's simple enough.

In the era you are looking at Horse are almost always in units of 4 bases but can be 6

So, "1 unit" of horse would equal either 4 or 6 lots of 40x30 bases - how many horses should I put on the bases (is it 6 on each base?). How many "units" of cavalry should an average-sized army have? Is it three - one for each flank and a mounted reserve maybe? Gendarmes and demi-lancers are the main types that I know of - and dragoons which are dealt with separately. Anything else?

infantry are usually in big units of maybe 8-12 pike+2 halberds, shot only units are 6-8 shot, or you can get mixed units of Tercios of 6-8 pike and 6-8 shot.

OK. I understand that. How many units of foot would an average-sized army have? How many tercios might an average-sized Spanish army have? Maybe there is somewhere on the forum with this info. I am a bit skint at the moment so I cannot get the FOG:R book right now.

Dragoons if you have them are units of 2-4 dragoons

OK. how many units of dragoons in an average-sized army?

Guns are in 2's or 3,s

On 40x40 bases? How many guns in an average-sized army? Two bases maybe - one larger and one smaller?

So these other bits and bobs that I have - camps, horse teams etc are superfluous for FOG:R, are they? And did the armies use foot skirmishers at all in the 16thC or were they obsolete by then (dragoons used instead, perhaps?)?

Thanks for all your help.

[madaxeman]

Might be worth having a look at the FoGR wiki on my site, as there are some (not many) army lists there, and also some of the match report as they too have photos of games in progress.

- For 6mm, put as many figures on the base as looks good - 15mm is 3/4 figures for most stuff, and 2 for skirmishers/guns
- How many horse - depends on the army..! 3-5 is good maybe, of which 1-3 might be skirmishing light horse with a lower density of figures and probably 3 gendarmes at most, more likely 2
- Foot - again how long is a piece of Spanish string...? 3 Tercios or Kiels is a lot for any army, plus 2-3 units of shooters, and you may also get a couple of skirmishing units of 4-6 bases with lower density too
- Guns - its 2, 3 or 4 really
Camp, yes you still need one - just like DBX it is 80mm x 120mm with any old c--p on it to make up a camp scene - maybe easier in 6mm than 15mm !

[stockwellpete]

OK, thanks very much, madaxeman. There's plenty there for me to get on with.

[grahambriggs]

Well, 2 answers.

Thanks for your reply, madaxeman. Can you clarify a few things for me as I have never played TT before, apart from a few DBA games a while back?

1. As long as you are fighting matched pairs and all the base sizes (for infantry and then mounted) are the same it shouldn't matter

What does "matched pairs" mean, please? Both armies using the same scale, perhaps?

It does indeed. So, if you are only ever going to play within a small circle of players, you could agree to use any base sizes you want. However, using the base sizes in the rules for 15mm figures can look good if you use 6mm instead. And then you have the option of playing against people with 15mm armies.

[stockwellpete]

It does indeed. So, if you are only ever going to play within a small circle of players, you could agree to use any base sizes you want. However, using the base sizes in the rules for 15mm figures can look good if you use 6mm instead. And then you have the option of playing against people with 15mm armies.

I am not quite sure what I am doing at the moment. I have quite a lot of 15mm medieval stuff that I have finished painting now and the flocking of the bases is also nearly done too. They are all based to be compatible with FOG TT rules. So now I have these 6mm chaps to sort out. I will have to rebase them all, I think. It will be a bit fiddly but it won't take too long really. I don't really have room to play at home and travelling around south London on the bus or tube to get to a club at night is less and less appealing the older that I get. I do enjoy the PC strategy games so I might decide to sell most of the stuff in the end once I have got into a presentable condition.

[stockwellpete]

I am trying to be a bit more specific about the mounted figures that I have got here. I can clearly identify gendarmes and pistoliers/reiters - but I have these chaps who are armoured with a lance (horses unarmoured) but they are also carrying a shield. Who would they be then? I thought maybe demi-lancers at first, but did they have shields? They are painted as if they are English troops but all I can find on the internet so far is that stradiots from the Balkans had shields in the 16thC, but these figures don't look particularly east European. So I am a bit puzzled. Any ideas?

Also, I have identified 5 separate bases of leaders (just 2 figures per base). How are leaders usually represented then? Just a few figures on a 40x30 base perhaps?

I am not sure who initially supplied these 6mm chaps either. I have come across Irregular Miniatures and Heroics and Ros who do 6mm. Are they the most popular suppliers. Thanks?

If there is anyone in the London area who might be interested in these figures (they are basically in good condition, but need a touch-up here and there) then by all means PM me. Cheers.

[Sarmaticus]

If those shielded cavalry have round shields, they could be, in FoGR terms, Anglo-Irish horse.

[stockwellpete]

If those shielded cavalry have round shields, they could be, in FoGR terms, Anglo-Irish horse.

Aha! Thank you! Yes, they do have round shields. I have found this now . . .

"Demi-lances formed about one-fifth of the English cavalry, the remaining four-fifths being the characteristic English light cavalry, referred to variously as 'javelins', 'prickers', 'Northern spears' or 'Border horse'.

They were also armed with light lance and one pistol, sometimes carrying a round or oval shield as well, and wore an open helmet, mail shirt or jack (corselet for the wealthier individuals), leather breeches and boots. Such cavalry were supplied by several English counties, but the best came from the raiders of the Scottish border, who were reputed to spear salmon from the saddle!"

http://greatestbattles.iblogger.org/Ren ... nglish.htm

So some of these chaps would be Border Reivers too.