square and flank assault

[marco]

is it possible to form a square while being flank attack ?
the rule is not clear in this case
thanks for an answer

[bahdahbum]

It is possible if you are charged by cavalry ..even mandatory unless you are already in melee ...a very rare situation

If charged only by infantry : no square

[BrettPT]

A messy area of the rules!

If charged by cavalry, yes you can form square. Nothing in the assault responses on page 30 says any different.

In order to count as a flank attack, the assaulting unit must contact an enemy flank (page 33). Squares have no flank (see page 108) so cannot be contacted on a flank. The assault no longer qualifing as a flank attack, you don't drop a level or suffer the PoA hit for being charged in the flank.

You will virtually never be able to assault the flank of an infantry unit in a FoGN game as your opponent will invariably choose square as a reaction.
In parcatice only infantry can pull off flank attacks on infantry.

This is not a great state of affairs IMO. Terry, is it worth an errata to page 33 to the effect that cava;ry can pull of flank attacks on infantry?

It is unclear if squares have a rear. If not the same rules apply - and squares will not be able to receive rear support in hand to hand.
If squares do have a rear they can get rear support, however an assault on the rear of the square would meet the defination of a rear attack under page 33.

Cheers
Brett

[deadtorius]

I don't think squares can get rear support since they don't have a rear.

[BrettPT]

I don't think squares can get rear support since they don't have a rear.

Hi Dead
The only relevant quote I could see is on in the definitions on page 108, it says squares have no flank, silent on rear.
However I had a troll and found a post by Terry I had forgotten that says:

We will be adding this to the clarifications ...
> A square has no rear, and has 4 front edges.
...

So you are correct, no rear support for squares. So no flank or rear attacks on infantry that are in, or form, square.

Cheers
Brett

[bahdahbum]

If charged by cavalry, yes you can form square

Infantry has to form square

But ok it may try not to ....

But infantry charged by infantry alone may not form square .

[marco]

thnaks for the answer
in my opinion rule was not clear on that point
normaly a n infantry charged can
stand and fire
try to form square

and in the paragraph about flank attack :
no allusion about forming square
just :
you can't fire
and when you receive a fannk charge you loose a cohesio
condition about flank attack are given
and ...
no allusion about forming square


thanks for the clarification
in my opinion a summary of THE MANY rule interpretation should be done

[gelin]

This means that when an infantry unit is flank charged by enemy infantry can choose to form square in order to avoid the cohesion drop and the double poa? Ok the square will lose anyway but surely it has better chances especially if the unit forming it is of good quality. Concerning the supports IIRC Terry mentioned that squares cannot claim rear support but can get flank support.

Another question: a unit not in square, is charged in front by enemy disordered infantry and from the flank by enemy cavalry. It succesfully formed square. In the battle it becomes wavering the enemy cav becomes disordered and the enemy infantry remains disordered. What becomes to the square? Does it make an outcome move since it is wav hence risking turning into tactical formation and being wiped out or since it is square fighting cavalry (irrespective of the enemy infantry) remains in place (halt ) and so the enemy cavalry must retire? I suppose the enemy infantry continues to fight with the square in next turn.

[BrettPT]

This means that when an infantry unit is flank charged by enemy infantry can choose to form square in order to avoid the cohesion drop and the double poa?

I don't think so. The option to form a square as a charge reaction only applies "...if being assaulted by Cavalry" (see page 30, top right).

Concerning the supports IIRC Terry mentioned that squares cannot claim rear support but can get flank support.

Yup. You don't have to have a flank to receive flank support. You must be to the flank of the supporting unit (ie it is the supporting unit that needs a flank, not the one in combat). So squares can receive, but not give, flank support.

Another question: a unit not in square, is charged in front by enemy disordered infantry and from the flank by enemy cavalry. It succesfully formed square. In the battle it becomes wavering the enemy cav becomes disordered and the enemy infantry remains disordered. What becomes to the square?

As the non-active wavering unit, the square retires first. Page 61, outcome moves table, Infantry: If facing cavalry ... in square ... Halt [if wavering]
So the squares Halts as its retirement move (ie does nothing)

The cavalry may then elect to pass through as its pursuit (need a CMT to do this as disordered). There is no pursuit for the attacking infantry as they are still in contact.

You then continue down the Combat Resolution table to the bottom - active player retires units in contact and Disordered - so the attacking infantry now retire D6 (the attacking cavalry also retire if they did not pass through).

I think that is correct!
Cheers
Brett