balance between prestige, overstrenghted units and reserve

[kokkorhekkus]

Hello to the PZC addicts

Question for old players !

I'm currently at the end of a long first DLC 39-45 campaign (FM level), seond scenario

It's reasonnably easy to have good prestige until the end of 1942, reserve units too

But after that It seems much more difficult to have a security with prestige & a good reserve units for the two points....because having 14/15 steps units is really useful in front of a powerful 44 & 45 red army...but cost many pp on deployment phase (my 4 Tigers II at 15 steps are good...but 1 overstrenght step count 99 pp...)

So...i'm on the edge for reserve units and pp for the last scenarips, few units (notably INF; only 2 ***** veterans) are in reserve (about 3/4 like 1 STR & flaks) after deployment. Is it better to have more than this in a Berlin "hard battle" perspective ?

Thanks

[Naxor]

I don't know how good core you need for Berlin because i havent played grand campaign that far but in general i only overstrength air units and artillery. Tanks and infantry take a lot of punishment so I think it's too costly to use elite reinfocements for them and that way it doesn't hurt that much when you lose units. But if you have +10000 prestige then I think it's acceptable.

[kokkorhekkus]

Thanks Naxor

I have 15 000 pp...in early 1942

yes with only arty and air units for "overstrenght politic" at that time

But since in front of more powerful russian units it seems better to overstrenght much more (?)

and despite the fact that I win 90% decisive victories (one MV in '43, one in '44) all the PPs in deployment phases are to overstrenght some heavy tanks and (few) infantry (my two "15" Me262 (INI heros) don't need that : an almost sure full kill with no losses for each attack ,-)

Too dangerous to let a "10" infantry in the fields of 1945 DLC, and they can still be useful (Goldap scenario for exemple)

But I "fear" about the end of the campaign...perhaps we have to keep X INF, even green, in reserve for the last stand.

I update a unit sometimes, perhaps buy new ones is a better thing...but a "10" Me262 (no hero) with less than 100 exp will surely not kill a "12" Yak3 or La 7 with 300 exp level in one attack without any loss.

but hard choices make this game real fun to play...

In the future I will try with "rommel" level of difficulty or deducter's mod, so I have to training myself for the best choices to make in an optimal pp perspective...

[Kamerer]

Sounds like you are doing well.

I looked back and the first time I played through on FM, I had about 14,000 after deploying for Kharkov - 2nd scenario '42. Later my pp peaked at 40,000 somewhere. This was WAY too much in the "bank." I kept hoarding prestige in fear of '45 instead of developing units and cultivating experience. When I played on Rommel next time, I had plenty of prestige most times - a combination of fighting efficiently and awarding it as extra strength strategically. In fact in early years up to 42, I had the SAME prestige on Rommel as FM - combination of playing better, spending prestige more cautiously and wisely, etc.

Sometime in '44, the pp awards become richer, also. So don't worry. A few things I found to work well:

• be aware of experience caps. When a unit reaches the cap for the campaign, let it fight down to 8 or 9 strength, use green replacements back to 10, and then elite to overstrength if desired. Then let it "earn" back to the cap. Always look for little places like this to save prestige. Use trucks, not half-tracks most of the time, and keep units dismounted as long as possible, and mix mounted and dismounted units for a while. It's not just saving the cost of the half-track - they make reinforcements a lot more expensive. This also works well with artillery. Keep in mind, Rommel yields experience 2x as fast as FM, so it's easier to gain (and re-gain if lost) experience.
• Keeping experience up is key - later on a 14 experience unit at 12 strength is still a very effective unit w/o spending to take it up to 14 strength.
• Fewer, very strong units are more important than lots of weaker ones. In 41 and 42 I look for places to "educate" green units that would otherwise be vulnerable later - particularly infantry and fighters. I try to have 8 max-experience infantry and 4 to 5 max experience fighters. Then watch them carefully and never lose them!
• When a high-experience unit gets ambushed or something and beaten down in strength during a scenario, I just "retire" it to the rear area instead of diluting it's experience or breaking the bank to bring it back to 10. You can always do this with a few units and still have enough effective units to get a DV in most all scenarios.
• Captures are very valuable. First for use, later for trade-in unless they earn a really good hero bonus - 1/2 of your armor should be Russian until the beginning of 43!
• Use bonuses to help determine upgrades. You can't upgrade everything at once on Rommel. So I leave the most powerful units as weaker unit-tyes (e.g., a Pz.IV 300 exp, a+3 stays a Pz.IV) a while and make the slightly weaker units a better unit type (e.g., Panther). This balances the core so no unit is taking horrible damage. Likewise, tank units with good defense bonuses become Panthers, not Tigers. This helps balance their weakness and reduce damage.

On Rommel, I have found only one GC scenario after '39 that a DV is not possible or wise - Oboyan in '43. It is on a campaign branch so you may or may not encounter it.

Oboyan is an example with Rommel or deducter's mods where you have to trade-off inflicting damage or taking an objective, etc. With Rommel you still have a powerful enough core to get a DV in most all places except here with the right strategy and tactics.

[deducter]

Using the stock equipment file, the best way to conserve prestige in the late war is to get all Tigers/Panthers and other heavies and overstrength them all the time, then protect them with fighters or mobile Flak. Your 14/15-strength Tiger will kill any Russian tank without taking damage in return. It is very possible to start scenarios with 10 14-strength Tiger and end with all of them still at 14-strength. Always upgrade to the best heavies, it is unambiguously the best powergaming option. This is especially true on Rommel, since you need to save prestige even more. Start out with 5-6 Tigers and keep adding them. Just look out to protect them against the AI's air attacks, so overstrength your fighters too and sweep the skies clear of the Russians.

As for my equipment file, you can still choose to do this and get as many elite Tigers as you can afford, but it may not be the best powergaming option anymore. And yes, Oboyan is incredibly brutal with my mod, basically you have to expend inordinate amounts of prestige to win DV. But best to discuss that in the scenario forum.

[kokkorhekkus]

Thanks for all

kamerer, 40 000 pps seems to me a dream even on FM level ! Because I apply yet most of what you describe in the post (ex : I like very much my def7 hero Panther), but I have not thinked to balance core with no experienced units with good equipment first as priority, and the good experienced with medium equipment. I will try !

I don't remember Oboyan scenario, certainly because I have taken the other branch ("Model" North branch) because my only '43 MV was in Orel , and because I have forgotten two arty units to advance (and they was able to do...) just before the last turn. I have finished with a "2 steps" russian INF disrupted on the last objective after 4 or 5 tank attacks , a frustrating experience ,-). Same sort of thing with return to Kishinev...in front of the last airfield , even the little rumanian objectives count...but a very tough and interesting scenario.

I lack of Infantry now, it is surely the explanation...and I have 200 pp trucks for towed arty & inf...since years because I spend replacement pps for more expensive materials. (410, 190, Tigers & Panthers, heavy AT...3 X 262 need not...almost invulnerable with INI heros & *****)

And It's difficult to evaluate the needs about "rear area units to retire", I practice that, but on a little scale before the very last turns. I will try to increase this exercise.

You're right Deducter, 15 steps for my 4/5 tigers II are good , but I have'nt the pp to overstrength the 5 now in each deployment phase and almost all of my panthers are at "10 steps". and from time to time a light casualtie appear even on heavy tigers.

So many thanks . next step after '45 if I am able to see the Epilogue : Afrika Korps perhaps, then "Rommel" level in DLCs with or without deducter mod. But Rommel + deducter is the "line of sight" for the future and a challenging experience of play with MVs and losses as a possible issue. I have already the desire to retry DLCs, this game is incredible, a dangerous addiction is about to happen !

[Kamerer]

I apply yet most of what you describe in the post (ex : I like very much my def7 hero Panther), but I have not thinked to balance core with no experienced units with good equipment first as priority, and the good experienced with medium equipment. I will try !

A def+7 tank is dream - that is very lucky! I would save that, however, to be my last tank I upgraded to Panther. It can survive as a Pz.IZ/H into '45 with no problem. That is pp conservation thinking.

I don't remember Oboyan scenario, certainly because I have taken the other branch ("Model" North branch) because my only '43 MV was in Orel , and because I have forgotten two arty units to advance (and they was able to do...)

Yes, Orel is tough. But is winnable. If you only missed DV by error, then you had the strategy down correctly. To others, note that there is an equal number of rail sources in the north/deployment as in the south. The trick is to put 8 strong tank/artillery units on those initial deployment hexes. Then immediately on turn 1 rail move them south. Then repeat as possible. You will have your forces equally deployed across the board quickly and behind rivers, able to defeat the attack. I have always managed a DV at Orel, except with deducter's mods, which makes for weaker units so you cannot destroy them/advance as quickly. With either FM or Rommel, DV at Orel is achievable with quick deployment using trains to your advantage - as the mission briefing states. Orel is one of the trickier scenarios, but the devs have given you the tools with a good briefing and very generous rail allotment - I think it is like 10 rail transports. You can be moving more units while others are still entrained awaiting to be disembarked. Very good scenario to teach use of rail transport.

I lack of Infantry now, it is surely the explanation...and I have 200 pp trucks for towed arty & inf...since years because I spend replacement pps for more expensive materials. (410, 190, Tigers & Panthers, heavy AT...3 X 262 need not...almost invulnerable with INI heros & *****)

I have found, the more I play, strong infantry is very key. I want to have a few maximum strength infantry units so they can demolish opponents, as well as intimidate attacks (don't forget, the AI looks at your units and computes possible damage before attacking . Strong infantry won't be attacked as often; weak will be savaged. "200 transport" = 250/1 half tracks? Very expensive to repair - more than the infantry itself! Skip it and buy trucks (Opel). Put maybe two infantry in 251/1 half-tracks for mobility, others on foot or trucks; makes reinforcement cheaper and lets experience build. More important in Rommel than FM.

next step after '45 if I am able to see the Epilogue : Afrika Korps perhaps, then "Rommel" level in DLCs with or without deducter mod. But Rommel + deducter is the "line of sight" for the future and a challenging experience of play with MVs and losses as a possible issue. I have already the desire to retry DLCs, this game is incredible, a dangerous addiction is about to happen !

I recommend after you finish all the DLCs, play them through on Rommel. Then play AK on Rommel. AK is a blast - I love it. Different terrain, different equipment, etc. It is clear why Rommel himself called it a "Krieg ohne Hass" - no cities to destroy, no civilians in the way, just strategy in open terain. It is entirely winnable on Rommel if you have played GC East on Rommel and know how to adapt. But back to GC east, deduter's mods are interesting and another challenge. I have played '39-'43 with them on Rommel and done well. However it was getting very tight and I switched to FM in '44, but I have not finished yet. I started beta GC West and also another rommel AK campaign (did I mention how much fun AK is? ).

[kokkorhekkus]

Thanks for your time Kamerer

yes trucks instead Htracks for most of INFs will be the rule...just finished the first '39 scenario on Rommel to take a look. Big différence, so I replace with green on the field because of a better rate for the growing experience of the units. and a DV but on last turn only for an easy scenario. And 2 cavalry units in my core with no sturmpanzer (for a while)

Loss of units in '39 and bad luck for SE units must be critical points to have in mind.

But I fear about lack of Halftracks for the "snowing or muddy scenarios"

Time will tell. I have to finish '45 DLC on FM , it's easy for the moment (4 DVs) but I have not enough security with my reserve units. (I let behind me only 1 STR & few flaks after deployment) The last one(s) in Berlin will be hard : I've read that we have to deploy 45 units (+ X SEs)

so OK for your approach, another 39-45 DLC on Rommel then AK on Rommel...few hours of play !