recon planes

[kokkorhekkus]

Bravo for the PG's revival
My first register for a game forum and I play wargames for long time
So... for our subject :
I read a lot of interesting things here, Like "rarity in favor of variety", but I don't remember about recon planes
I think a plane like this could be a good add on :

Fw 189 "Uhu ", modilised in the tip "secret weapons of the Luftwaffe" (impressive job)

spot : 4
cheap (about 100 pp)
bad air defense but good ground defense (like STR) or better : an "evade system" like submarines. If no evade system is possible, a better air defense could be a solution

[El_Condoro]

Welcome to the forum!

Recon planes have been discussed in the past. The question is whether they would exert too much influence in the game - spotting range 4 would make fog of war much less of an issue. They should probably be more expensive, not less, to compensate for this.

[kokkorhekkus]

yes, another solution
There's a core limitation but you're right another one could be : expensive unit, or easy to shoot one if an evsion fa(it's ONE plane)
Fog of War is a good

[kokkorhekkus]

F...the message is going on too rapidly

So : fog of war is a good thing, but loosing too much in one counter-attack after 40 scenarios is too much because of it. Personnaly i don't like to reload scénarios when things go wrong.

[Razz1]

The AA and AT mod has recon planes.

They are very expensive.

[robman]

What if [some] aircraft were able to "switch" between attack and recon modes? In recon mode, attack values would be significantly decreased (though defense values might go up), spotting would be +1, and a fighter in recon mode would not provide defensive fire to air or ground units during the enemy's next turn. This would be fairly "realistic" and should not upset game balance too much.

[Casaubon]

I like robmans idea as well as to have a cheap and weak recon plane model in the roster. good topic

[kokkorhekkus]

Finally, I think robman have the solution (but with 0 or half attack value and same defense)

but tears for the fun "Uhu" (except for a complement, but expensive one)

second advantage : the switching button serves for two things ,-)

[Loki1942]

What if [some] aircraft were able to "switch" between attack and recon modes? In recon mode, attack values would be significantly decreased (though defense values might go up), spotting would be +1, and a fighter in recon mode would not provide defensive fire to air or ground units during the enemy's next turn. This would be fairly "realistic" and should not upset game balance too much.

How about them being able to switch only at airfields? seems rather obvious to me. Personally i like the idea of recon planes, been wondering why they arent included.

[kokkorhekkus]

switching at airfield yes

So the balance could be here and good : we have to choice BEETWEEN fights and reco, and reco mode is not too easy to switch

I think reco mode must have a 0 AA value because the two modes don't have to be mixed (Ooooh good I attack and I see at 3 hexes ,-)

And historically it make sense : most of fighters and bombers have reco versions. (except stukas & others easy to exclude)

AD value could be like STR but when sight is at 3 hexes it's more easy to avoid AA so it's not necessary, but a "submarine evade try" could be fun because the opponent will have choice to be made too (did I attack this one he is in my territory and I have 3 fighters but did I expend 2 or three for that to wound or kill it ?)

hard choices for both sides are fun for a game like this I think, and it becomes simple to understand and play, as PZC have to be

Is Razz or Vpaulus have viewes on this ?

[bebro]

switching at airfield yes

So the balance could be here and good : we have to choice BEETWEEN fights and reco, and reco mode is not too easy to switch

I find the idea interesting, not only for a possible recon switch. This could be enhanced for example to have certain bombers or naval bombers equipped with either bombs for ground attack or torpedoes for naval attack, with varying stats for both modes of course. Should work on carriers too.

However, it adds more MM, so it's a double-edged sword IMO. Not per se, if done for some units, but if at some point any unit that can be used for various roles comes with a couple of switches to cover every aspect we move certainly away from the original PG/PzC idea, not to mention the additional clickeria involved. Dunno how far the devs want to go with that...

[Chris10]

However, it adds more MM, so it's a double-edged sword IMO. Not per se, if done for some units, but if at some point any unit that can be used for various roles comes with a couple of switches to cover every aspect we move certainly away from the original PG/PzC idea, not to mention the additional clickeria involved. Dunno how far the devs want to go with that...

and the player would get unfair advantages as the AI certainly is not smart enough to calculate with all possible uses of switch units let alon if the switch chain becomes longer...for that you need an entity with cognitive abilities

[airbornemongo101]

...for that you need an entity with cognitive abilities

Damn...that leaves me out

[Chris10]

...for that you need an entity with cognitive abilities

Damn...that leaves me out

aweee...cmon

[kokkorhekkus]

bebro and others a new topic : switching abilities in few minutes
the discuss seems interesting
switching abilities must be with balance concepts even for AI response...and it's possible

[Casaubon]

what about giving recon planes the ability to move twice like a recon ground unit and leaving their spotting radius at 2 or 3 range. this way their overviewed area wouldnt be too big and still they could evade to dangerous areas.

[dimitriszzz]

I remember I ve seen some functional and really nice recon planes in the minors booster pack. I think most nations small and big had recon planes. I think recon movement was there, spotting 2 or 3 (cant remember), you could buy them from the bombers menu but their attack skills were complete crap (or usually only defensive fire available), Lysander was there I remember and some peculiar biplanes for the minor axis.

[Razz1]

They are in the AT and AA package.

[Dragoon.]

Not sure about MP but with the current DLC scenarios a sight 4 plane really imbalance the game. I had recently from Buzinovka Depot (the bonus mission before Stalingard) a BF109 with two spot+1 heroes. I laid ambush after ambush with perfect unit placement because of this. Especially considering russian conscripts and SMG Inf. units have only a sight of 1.

[Casaubon]

I liked the recon plane in DLC42/42West, where you hunt down italian battleships with Radioguided bombs. If I´m not mistaken the map was "Taranto".