downloaded your turns multiple times

[Furby]

Email message....
The server tracks all actions taken by all users in the PBEM++ system and we notice that you have consistently downloaded your turns multiple times.
Please contact technical support via www.slitherine.com/forum to resolve the issue or you may find you are unable to continue to use the PBEM++ server system.
...........................

Although I have downloaded multiple times, they are always uploaded the same multiple times as well, I tend to do the campaign turns in chunks and prefer to 'save' the turn frequently to ensure nothing is lost, please can you confirm your tracking recognising a download followed by an upload as a valid 'non-cheating' activity ?

While I applaud your tracking abnormal activity, I do not believe my activity should be picked up by this as unusual, please could you investigate the logs and advise why this is being reported as such. If I need to modify the number of downloads with associated uploads, then please advise what an acceptable number for each turn is.

Regards,

Furby

[pipfromslitherine]

Have you had to download again a turn because of game crashes etc. Saving turns midway and redownloading them will not trigger the system (it is in fact encouraged!) - it will only take note if you download a turn more than once without uploading a corresponding turn.

Cheers

Pip

[vonBeanie]

I just got this message. My only internet access is via a MiFi device that has as downloading speed between 10 and 25 kb/sec, so it takes a few minutes to do. Sometimes the connection fails and so a message comes on the screen that says the download failed. As I recall (this has happened a couple of times over the last month, but not lately) there is an error message, I believe numbered 99. I believe I have always tried to download the turn again immediately, except once when the connection was so bad I decided to try again later.

Perhaps your notification should recognize the difference between a successful downloaded turn, and a failed download accompanied by an error message. I have never successfully downloaded a game turn and then downloaded it again. Or failing that, perhaps it could disregard a second download that occurs within five minutes of a failed download.

[IainMcNeil]

Unfortunately its impossible to detected between a forced loss of connection and a genuine loss of connection as all the server can tell is the client has stopped talking to them. You really should connect your device with a wire as wifi is famous for causing these types of issues and not good for online multiplayer.

[vonBeanie]

At my last house I had DSL. But last February I moved to the high desert where my only choices are dial-up, MiFi and satellite. MiFi already has 3G and theoretically will soon have 4G, whereas the others are slow. I don't have the choice of DSL or FIOS here. When the massive traffic to Vegas passes on Friday evenings and Sunday afternoons, the whole system slows down and connection losses sometimes occur. I can sometimes tell from how my system has slowed that a crash has occurred on the highway because the stopped traffic suddenly overwhelms the communication system.

I played dozens of turns to finish a game that ended in June, and now I have started a new game in August. I didn't get this message once until now. I haven't noticed much of a problem lately, so I'm baffled why I'm getting this warning now. I routinely play my turns in one sitting, but that can take up to two hours. If the connection drops momentarily during that time, will it create an error message on your system? It doesn't create a problem with the game that I'm aware of.

I'd appreciate it if you would look at my violations and see if there is a cluster in just August, or if this is a long accumulation of sporadic violations since last February. A few will inevitably occur over many months, but I don't recall the error message happening more than about two or three times in the last month.

Some time ago I was very vocal in trying to get this kind of check added, so it will be sad if causes me to only play direct PBEM games. BTW, I'm currently playing the Russian side in 1941. As the defender, there's nothing to be gained by reloading turns, since attacks of any kind are very rare, and FOW doesn't matter when all you are doing is retreating.

[IainMcNeil]

It only needs the connection when actually uploading so if you lose connection during your turn its no problem.

If you tell us the opponents you are playing we can look up the game.

[vonBeanie]

I have had only one active PBEM server game since mid-June, and it is with SmokinDave34.

[IainMcNeil]

The issues comes from a series of failed uploads on the 18th August. Every download should have a matching upload. You can see here on the 18th you had 4 downloads in a row on turn 7 at ~1pm server time.

Hope that clears things up!

Fri, 17 Aug 2012 23:12:08 -0600 6 DOWNLOAD
Sat, 18 Aug 2012 01:42:32 -0600 7 UPLOAD
Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:57:15 -0600 7 DOWNLOAD
Sat, 18 Aug 2012 13:00:35 -0600 7 DOWNLOAD
Sat, 18 Aug 2012 13:03:47 -0600 7 DOWNLOAD
Sat, 18 Aug 2012 13:06:49 -0600 7 DOWNLOAD
Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:04:39 -0600 8 UPLOAD
Sun, 19 Aug 2012 13:11:29 -0600 8 DOWNLOAD

[vonBeanie]

Please note my post above regarding when my internet has problems. My system often slows down and fails when the traffic on nearby I-15 gets crowded on a weekend when the traffic to Vegas explodes and everyone uses the cellphone towers that my system utilizes.

But my major point is that with my system it takes a minimum of two to three minutes to download a turn. Your record clearly indicates that the connection was repeatedly failing because each download was about three minutes apart. Even with DSL I couldn't download a turn and then make a move in less than three minutes and try again, and so what it really shows is that I had to try four times in a row to get the turn downloaded successfully. Furthermore, you will note there was not an earlier download of that turn where I would have had time to plan some sort of cheat. I believe that what your system needs is to record if a download was successful. My argument is that the first three downloads on 18 Aug generated error messages (#99), and so I had to try again. If your system is designed well, it should also record that a download failed and generated an error message. Secondly, for someone to get an advantage from downloading a turn multiple times, there has to be more than three minutes between the first download of a turn and the second. I'd argue that at least 10 minutes or more are needed at an absolute minimum to get some sort of play advantage on a new turn, not three minutes.

Given how many turns I play, and most without problems, the evidence is that I was having serious connection issues at that time.

[vonBeanie]

I haven't had many problems downloading turns since the end of August, but I have had a few downloading failures in the last two days. For example, tonight my first download failed, so I tried again less than 3 minutes later. It failed again. So I waited an hour and it worked. As I noted in August, if you see multiple downloads less than 3 minutes apart, it isn't someone cheating--but rather someone trying to complete a successful download on a MiFi system. In any case, I got the warning again, and since the message says I should report it to technical support, I have written this message for what its worth. I have no idea why the downloads (and an occasional upload) have failed recently, but it is not something I can control.

Norm

[IainMcNeil]

Sorry you are having problems. Anything Wifi based is prone to issues like this. Ideally you would connect via a cable as this is the only way to be sure you have a good stable connection. Downloading turns 3 mins apart could be an attempt to cheat - e.g. trying to replay a specific combat to get a better result. This is why we track everything.

[vonBeanie]

Then your system is broken. The system needs to indicate when a turn loads successfully. When the last byte of a turn transfers and the "loading" routine begins, the program should also trigger something in your system that indicates that stage was reached. NONE of my failed downloads ever reaches the "loading" stage, and your system should easily be able to detect that fact if it was designed well.

[IainMcNeil]

Can you clarify what you mean - what is the difference visually for you between a turn loading and not loading? We can't fix the loss of connection as that's related to your wifi, but if you are getting bad feedback that is a different issue.

[vonBeanie]

Because it normally takes several minutes to download my turns, on the screen a flashing box says "reading" repeatedly for those minutes. When the file is complete that box changes to a flashing "loading." In other words, I haven't downloaded a functional file until the "loading" box appears. I'm guessing most people don't see these because they have fast downloading speeds (like I did at my previous residence that had DSL).

My argument is that a player doesn't have a functional game file until the "loading" box appears, and that is what should trigger your upload file counter. As I mentioned above, when my downloads fail it is always before the "loading" box appears, and thus your system should not be inferring that I have a functional file and could cheat. Just connecting to your computer and starting a download process doesn't mean I get a usable file successfully until the "loading" stage is reached. For us rural folk that don't have a faster internet option, simply moving the downloading trigger to the beginning of the "loading" stage would resolve all of the problems that makes it appear I am cheating when the downloads fail.

[IainMcNeil]

Ok I see what you mean but it cant work like that. The server just tracks if you have started downloading. It has no way to know if you completed downloading. You cant tell when a file is complete, just that a connection has stopped dragging data from you so a time out or a complete file looks the same to the server.

The whole system would need to be changed to have the client (game) report to the server if it had downloaded ok and that would be open to new and different exploits.

Unfortunately dial up is not a great way to play especially over WiFi so you have the worst possible combination from a connection point of view.