shooting from buildings

[deadtorius]

In our game to day had an odd situation arise which we were not sure how to handle.

FB= French in building
FR= French Troops
FA= French Artillery

FRFR FBFB
FRFR FBFB FAFA

The French were defending a building with friendly troops adjacent as shown above.
Austrian troops were attacking off to either side of the building so no part of the Austrian units was directly in front of the building. Since the troops defending would be shooting off to the side, I would assume you would measure and shoot from the side of the terrain piece.

Do the adjacent friendly troops block LOS for shooting since you would have to trace from the side of the terrain piece through the adjacent friendly units to get at any Austrians or do you trace from the front and if you don't cross any friendly bases you can shoot.

[Blathergut]

Basically, can a unit defending a building, shoot out from one corner, drawing a line of fire from the corner, while to the side a friendly unit is sitting there?

[panda2]

A unit defending a building can shoot at any unit capable of shooting at it at close or medium range (p.78), so I don't think in that case LOS or arc restrictions could apply to the defending unit, although they would be relevant to the attacker (if the enemy can shoot at them the defender can shoot back).

If no enemy is capable of firing at the defending unit (which may be the case in your example) then they may fire at the closest single enemy unit within their normal range (p.78). This IMO probably is restricted by LOS. However, on p.77 it is stated that:

"All measurements to and from units in a building is taken to or from the nearest point of the perimeter of the building."

This would mean IMO that you would determine LOS from that point, which in your example may well be the corner. If a LOS could not be made from the nearest point of the building to the nearest enemy because of intervening friends or terrain then I would assume that the unit in the building could shoot at the next nearest target in range (although a narrow reading of p.78 might suggest otherwise).

Andy D

PS: I've assumed that arc considerations don't really apply to buildings since unlike squares, which can be considered to have 4 front edges, buildings could be circular or ovoid.

[Blathergut]

That's the point. Everything else draws from its centre point. Buildings, if just one little bit is exposed, draw from that. At times that seems a tad odd, but again, I think we have to remember troops are not welded to the battlefield in neat little rectangle bases.

[terrys]

The concept that you have to understand with buildings is that units are not stood back firing from 6MU - they are doing the same as every other unit is doing when firing at medium range - they are throwing their skirmisher forwards to with firing range (2MU). The defenders are actually firing at the skirmishers rather than the main body of the unit......which is why unreformed units can fire from buildings at (medium range) units firing at them.

This means that units in buildings can fire out in ANY direction - even at 45deg from the corners.

[deadtorius]

Thanks terry

One last question I forgot before that came up in our last game
Had a unit of cuirassier within 6 Mu of the same building, they were facing paralell to the terrain pieces foot print. The did have an attached artillery unit, but due to facing could not shoot at the building. I had a unit of jagers shooting at the building from the other side. Could the cuirassier have been chosen as a target since they were within range but not withing arc of shooting at the building, or do you actually have to be facing the building having it in your arc to count as able to shoot at it?

The shooting jagers drew the French fire away since they were the only enemy actually shooting at the building, just wondered since blathergut wanted to shoot at the cuirassier too.

[terrys]

Could the cuirassier have been chosen as a target since they were within range but not withing arc of shooting at the building, or do you actually have to be facing the building having it in your arc to count as able to shoot at it?

FAQ1 is quite clear:
• Only units defending a building can fire out - The number of dice used are as follows:
o 4 dice: Against each infantry unit capable of firing at them at medium range (ignoring artillery attachments).
o 4 dice: Against each unit of any type at close range.
o +1 dice: Against one of the above targets, if the firers have an artillery attachment.
Or: - If no enemy infantry is capable of firing at the building:
o 4 dice: At the nearest single enemy unit of any type within the firers’ normal range.
o +1 dice: If the firers have an artillery attachment.
o 2 dice: If the unit is firing at medium range and its only dice are from an artillery attachment.

Since there is enemy capable of firing at the building the top option is the one to take.
However, the Cuirassiers do not fulfill either of the target options. So no - the cuirassiers cannot be fired at. Even if the cuirassiers had been able to fire it's artillery at the building they coulld still not be fired at.

[deadtorius]

So regardless of attachments cavalry are never considered able to shoot, thats something to keep in mind. Thanks Terry

[Blathergut]

I think the cavalry in the above was not a target because it was beyond 2mu. If it however had been within close range, I could have targeted it, yes?

[deadtorius]

yep looks like its open season at close range alright.

[terrys]

So regardless of attachments cavalry are never considered able to shoot, thats something to keep in mind. Thanks Terry

I think there is some confusion here.
> Cavalry can fire artillery attachments at the building as normal from within 6MU.
> Defenders can fire at all enemy units within 2MU.
> If there are any enemy infantry capable of firing from within 6MU of the building (not counting dice from an artillery attachments) the defenders will be able to fire at ALL such enemy infantry units - but no others.
> If there are no enemy infantry within 6MU capable of firing as described above, the defenders can fire at any ONE enemy unit within 6MU. It's dice will be reduced by 2 if the target has a cavalry attachment, OR there is an enemy cavalry unit within 6MU of the building.

In the case in question, the defenders can only fire at the infantry unit.
If the infantry unit had not been there, the defenders could fire at the cuirassiers with 2 dice, and the cuirassiers could fire their artillery attachment back, also with 2 dice (if they were facing).

[hazelbark]

PS: I've assumed that arc considerations don't really apply to buildings since unlike squares, which can be considered to have 4 front
edges, buildings could be circular or ovoid.

Where do you live? Every house i have ever lived in had cornerrs approximating 90 degrees. Never lived in an ovid.

Ok I suppose you are talking a building group. But I see no more reason for it to be one way rather than an another.

[panda2]

Where do you live? Every house i have ever lived in had cornerrs approximating 90 degrees. Never lived in an ovid.

Very funny! I did know someone that lived in an octagonal house once and the use as dwellings of converted oasthouses, windmills, light houses and even Martello towers, which would all be round, is not that uncommon in some rural parts of the UK.

However, the main point was that in game terms there is nothing to prevent someone placing a circular area of buildings, so we can't assume a building will have a finite number of defined faces. I'm not sure that you want to have a game mechanism that enouraged round buildings by restricting firing arcs. Although it could be the FOGN equivalent of the DBx star shaped woods that I've heard so much about (but never seen mercifully).

Andy D