Clarification on CMT

Pavaro · Post by **Pavaro** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:24 am

Playing our first games, we have a doubt interpreting the sentence on page 18 of the rules (sadly, our english is not good as we would like), who reads:
"It must take a Complex Move Test, and its division commander must expend a command point (unless the unit is led by a commander of any type) in the following... followed by a series of bullets.
The sentence in brackets means that if any leader is attached to the unit, the unit:
1) will don't make the cmt
2) will make the cmt as usual, but without expending command points, because is using the "free" cmt given by the leader
or what else?

Thanks for the help

LeslieMitchell · Post by **LeslieMitchell** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:46 am

I believe it answer 2/ will make the cmt as usual, but without expending command points, because is using the "free" cmt given by the leader.

panda2 · Post by **panda2** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:47 am

Don't worry, there are many people who have English as their first language who have asked similar questions! There are several references in the rules to commanders and CMTs and it is difficult to make sense of them in isolation.

As Leslie has said, the rule is that units led by a commander get to take their first CMT of any phase without expending a command point (note "phase" not "turn"). They still have to roll to pass the CMT, but get plus one on their dice, so would only need to roll a 4, rather than 5.

Andy D

Jason_Langlois · Post by **Jason_Langlois** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:45 am

What throws me off is this...

pg 41 "... does not require a Command Point for the first CMT taken in any phase. Additonal CMTs are rolled for as normal except that they are passed on a 4+ instead of the usual 5+."

The implication of the bolded chunk (my bolding) is that the first CMT is not rolled for. Or, worse, that the first CMT is on a 5+, but other's are on a 4+.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:54 am

What the bold part means is that it any other CMT's you attempt, the normal rules apply, so you need to spend a command point, but you will still only need a 4 to pass instead of a 5.

Remember if you have an attached officer he gives you one command free CMT and makes it easier to pass all CMT's the unit attempts.

Hope that clears it up for you.

panda2 · Post by **panda2** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:38 am

I have to admit that I initially shared Jason's doubts over the meaning of the passage in bold and played my first two games not rolling for the first CMT for a unit led by a commander. However, I then came to the conclusion that this interpretation didn't fit well with the replies given by the authors on various threads in in which CMTs and commanders were dicussed and went back and looked at the rules again.

They key section of the rules for me is on p.46 under "Procedure". It begins:

"A Complex Move Test (CMT) must be taken by any unit performing an action on the CMT table listed as 'Complex'."

There is no suggestion in the text that follows that having a commander with the unit exempts it from the requirement to take a CMT and, in deed, the only mention of commanders in the text states:

"A Complex move requires a CP unless it is the first CMT taken this phase for a unit led by a commander."

This, if anything, reinforces the idea that a CMT is still taken. Furthermore, the table on p.46 also makes it clear that for units led by a commander the score required to pass a CMT when taken is 4+.

The meaning of the passage quoted by Jason is unfortunately equivocal. However, it seems to me that it must be interpreted in the light of the unequivocal statements in p.46 to produce the interpretation given by Deadtorius. IMO it would have been better if the errata had removed the word "Additional" or changed it to "Additionally" (which might have been the original intention).

Andy D

Jason_Langlois · Post by **Jason_Langlois** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:50 am

Ah, yes, adding an 'ly' to that changes the meaning of the entire sentence and clarifies things. In light of the other statements, I suspect you're right about the original intention.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:25 pm

moved here

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:09 pm

Having played all the other FOG games we have a handle on the CMT ourselves. In FOG ancients at first it threw us a bit as well.
If the chart says what ever you are trying to do is simple, you don't roll for it.
If the chart says the move you are trying to make is complex you always roll for it.
In these rules it requires a command point, unlike the other sets. If you have an officer with the unit first attempt is command point free but still requires a die roll. Any other complex CMT attempts by that unit will cost a command point, and the dice roll.
Attached officer will always reduce the score to pass by 1, so you can pass a complex move with a 4 instead of a 5.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:10 pm

The meaning of the passage quoted by Jason is unfortunately equivocal. However, it seems to me that it must be interpreted in the light of the unequivocal statements in p.46 to produce the interpretation given by Deadtorius. IMO it would have been better if the errata had removed the word "Additional" or changed it to "Additionally" (which might have been the original intention).

Austrians got it right this time

terrys · Post by **terrys** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:57 am

The meaning of the passage quoted by Jason is unfortunately equivocal. However, it seems to me that it must be interpreted in the light of the unequivocal statements in p.46 to produce the interpretation given by Deadtorius. IMO it would have been better if the errata had removed the word "Additional" or changed it to "Additionally" (which might have been the original intention).

"additional" will be replaced by "Additionally" in the next release of the errata.