AK: Basra

[VPaulus]

Please post here your comments about this scenario.

[Mountaineer]

Starting prestige 3000. No way to both upgrade and use prestige for elite reinforcements. I also note that I have more units from the previous scenario that cannot be placed in this one (4 non SE units). I played them all in Iraq. There was also a new plane in the pop up of new equipment, the "gigante" [sic]. But when I did try and look at it for upgrade or purchase, it could not be found. The other new equipment did show, such as the Tiger and 43 Infantry. Ok, onward to battle I go, MTF.

[Mountaineer]

7 turns into it, the AI sent unescorted airborne troop transports into my planes. Bad move for the AI.

[LostAgain]

Playing FM. I enjoyed this scenario but didn't find it very challenging. It felt way easier to beat as a DV than any other excluding the first two snoozer scenarios. The only difficulty I encountered was the loss of a SdKfz 233 8Rad due to overconfidence on my part. I think the allies should either have more units or better yet, use lots of land mines. They're guaranteed to slow down a headlong charge like the one I found myself in. I look at it as a very bad sign when I had so little fear of losing after the first couple of turns that I really wasn't so much playing strategically as trying to kill every allied unit in the scenario. I too encountered the kamikaze transport planes.

My only problem at all is that my SE Bf 110 G would not upgrade to a ME 410 A although another non SE Bf 110 G did upgrade?

[uran21]

There is no SE Me 410 in the game.

[karlto]

Agree with some of the other folks here that this scenario perhaps is a bit on the easy side, at least once you get across the river. The airborne assault was a nice touch, but not enough to make it really hairy. Mines, as someone else mentioned, might be a good option. I did try to pull off an airborne assault on the airports, which failed due to the damn tanks. Nice!

Would appreciate an explanation of what the big transport is for. Can we now transport any unit between airfields with this one?

[Kamerer]

Basra
FM Level, DV at 15/23
Prestige start: 5,300. End: 5,300. Net: 0 (used a lot of elite upgrades in the city).
(Elite replacements to “10” during scenario for core units, unless very badly damaged – those retired and repaired w/Elite in next deployment).

A fun challenge with double river to cross on the eastern map edge, and forts to neutralize on the crossing. I really enjoyed this bit - I used dive bombers on the forts, two bridging units in tandem to make a "road" across the river island and behind their lines. Fun.

Counter attack was nicely done, too, though ineffectual with their light units. The paras fell on strong heavy tank units; it was Market Garden all over again. Interesting scenario, but not really difficult and too much time allowed, as like the last few scenarios. ? On a side note, still cannot get the Flamm tank to work in any useful way for me. I’ve played with it in a few scenarios, and it always gets mauled by infantry no matter how I deploy it – in close terrain, open, etc. Unless it has a powerful artillery unit glued to it, it’s fairly useless as far as I can sort out. And with an artillery unit glued to it, in close combat, that creates other risks. Am I missing something about the Flamm?

There is no SE Me 410 in the game.

There are SE 110s to upgrade from, and there's a non-SE 410. I haven't before seen a unit type that didn't have an SE equivalent? I, too, noticed that and really would like to upgrade the SE Bf110 to a 410 - I actually have two SE Bf110s in my core. However, the early 410 and late 110 play very, very close to the same so it's not really important; it's the later 410s that have a real edge if I recall correctly.

[billmv44]

Just started the scenario, while on turn 2 I want to buy an extra artillery unit, my prestige drops when I press purchase, but no unit appears in my reserve units. I currently have 5 units in reserve with 1 open core slot. I shouldn't lose the prestige if I can't buy and deploy the unit. I have a save file if needed.

[Rudankort]

Just started the scenario, while on turn 2 I want to buy an extra artillery unit, my prestige drops when I press purchase, but no unit appears in my reserve units. I currently have 5 units in reserve with 1 open core slot. I shouldn't lose the prestige if I can't buy and deploy the unit. I have a save file if needed.

Yes, please send it to me (rudankort@rsdn.ru). I've investigated a similar issue earlier today, but could not recreate it. Maybe your save helps.

[billmv44]

General level. Starting Prestige 7466, ending 4000. Elite replacements for all units. Upgraded 4 Pz IV Gs to Tiger Is.

Other than the issue I mentioned in my earlier post (saved file send to Rudankort as requested), this played fine. Once I was over the river it was simply a matter of time. I've found that Tigers backed by artillery support survive urban combat very well. Pionieres and Paras do very well in the cities too. I never did see the actual paratroops drop, just tons of them appearing in front of me. DV on turn 18/23. Maybe add a couple more forts or strong points behind the river to increase the difficulty. Very little RAF activity. Smashed again by my deadly 88s.

[LostAgain]

There is no SE Me 410 in the game.

I think you've got it backwards then. The Germans ALWAYS gave their newest and best equipment to their elite units. If the Me 410 is to be restricted for use in any way I think that it should only be available to elite units...

[Kamerer]

Just started the scenario, while on turn 2 I want to buy an extra artillery unit, my prestige drops when I press purchase, but no unit appears in my reserve units. I currently have 5 units in reserve with 1 open core slot. I shouldn't lose the prestige if I can't buy and deploy the unit. I have a save file if needed.

Yes, please send it to me (rudankort@rsdn.ru). I've investigated a similar issue earlier today, but could not recreate it. Maybe your save helps.

Well I am glad to hear this to make me not think I am crazy! I did have the error re-appear today and sent Alex another saved game that was doing it. Not glad to find a bug, but glad someone else found it, too and I'm not the only one.

[Kamerer]

There is no SE Me 410 in the game.

I think you've got it backwards then. The Germans ALWAYS gave their newest and best equipment to their elite units. If the Me 410 is to be restricted for use in any way I think that it should only be available to elite units...

Historically, this is indeed accurate. Though SE/SS air units is an a-historical territory. And I have changed my mind now that I am at the end of the game vs. an earlier point when I made my above post. I am agreeing with LostAgain. Here's why:

It was worth letting the point slide while the 1st generation 410 and latest 110 were pretty equal. But now I am looking at the mess that is the wildly inaccurate India map, mid-'44. Add all of my tactical aerial units ('tac air' as the USAF says) are SE units because of "awards" I got on the way; I was awarded no SE infantry and 2 SE armour. but I got three SE tac units, so I did not build up a non-SE core of them. And I now have 190G's as an upgrade path, and a difficult map to tackle. I can certainly win the game (er, I think? - just deploying and it looks formidable) without the upgrade, but I think the consumer/purchaser/player would like to take his SE units on the normal upgrade path and not be artificially constrained. Indeed, he's going to feel cheated if he is not allowed to.

Thus, I think if you are going to give SE tac air, they need to follow the normal chronological upgrade path. Or don't give them. No big deal; it's historically accurate to not have them. So treat them equally, or just don't award them. Otherwise you put the player (aka, "your customer") in a box he's not happy with.

The player (your customer) does not always have to win; but he does have to be treated fairly, whether as a moral scrouple, piece of ethical reasoning, or just darn good business sense. And indirectly forcing him down an SE tac air path with multiple awards and then cutting off his upgrades when the going gets tough, and without warning, is not fair.

[LostAgain]

I think too much emphasis is placed on identifying SE units as SS because in WW II there were only Panzer and Panzergrenadier SS div's, and the only SE/SS units originally available in Panzer Corp followed that historical fact, but that really flys in the face of the many other elite units that weren't SS.

Way back in 1940 East when I advocated both capturing enemy a/c and adding SE a/c I noted that the German military had MANY elite units (and I'm not only referring to air units here), that weren't SS. One such unit was Jagdgeschwader (JG) 26. They were known as either "The Abbeville Boys" or "The Abbeville Kids" by both the British and Americans who flew against them. The unit's official Luftwaffe name was "Jagdgeschwader Schlageter". This was an elite air unit, so the SE status is certainly applicable to them. How about the Großdeutschland div., the Panzer Lehr div., or even the Hermann Göring div. All elite Panzer or Panzergrenadier div's with top grade equipment, but not SS. The precedent was ALWAYS there for elite non-SS units other than Panzer or infantry.

[Rudankort]

Just started the scenario, while on turn 2 I want to buy an extra artillery unit, my prestige drops when I press purchase, but no unit appears in my reserve units. I currently have 5 units in reserve with 1 open core slot. I shouldn't lose the prestige if I can't buy and deploy the unit. I have a save file if needed.

Yes, please send it to me (rudankort@rsdn.ru). I've investigated a similar issue earlier today, but could not recreate it. Maybe your save helps.

Well I am glad to hear this to make me not think I am crazy! I did have the error re-appear today and sent Alex another saved game that was doing it. Not glad to find a bug, but glad someone else found it, too and I'm not the only one.

Guys, thanks for the saves. I was able to recreate the situation you describe. It is a bit tricky, but not a bug and the game worked like this since ever. Here is what happens.
- When you purchase a unit in the course of a scenario, it is not placed in reserve. Instead, it is "selected" and you see it in the UI panel (selected unit block). If you right-click or do any action other than placing the unit, purchase is cancelled, and all prestige spent is returned to you.
- Now, if there are no useful hexes to place new unit, you won't see any arrows indicating possible placement locations on the map, and this might be confusing. For example, in Basra you have some airfields in your posession, but not cities which means, there is nowhere to place purchased ground units. All you can do in such a case if cancel the purchase.

I agree that it would be more user-friendly if the game did not allow you to buy a unit in this case, but displayed a red warning, much like when you don't have enough prestige or core slots. I put this in the wish list, but with low priority, because other things take priority at the moment.

[Kamerer]

Hmm, that's not what was happening. I had lots of prestige, plenty of places to deploy, and core slots open. The unit would not appear as purchased and I was not allowed to deploy it anywhere.

If you tried again, the prestige would change by odd amounts. Sometimes UPWARDS. So it is definitely something wrong. I can't inmagine how a purchase giving positive prestige could be a regular feature?

The error comes and goes. My "Road to India" file was doing it yesterday. Now when I open it, it works normally. Very weird.

[Rudankort]

If you tried again, the prestige would change by odd amounts. Sometimes UPWARDS. So it is definitely something wrong. I can't inmagine how a purchase giving positive prestige could be a regular feature?

As I said, your purchase gets cancelled if you do any other action.

I assumed that what happened was this: you buy a unit, don't see any deploy hexes and think that purchase failed. So you try again and buy another unit. At this point the purchase of the first unit gets cancelled. Depending on how much the first and the second unit cost, prestige could go up or down. For example, if you bought Tiger first, and then, without cancelling first purchase, bought a PzIV, you would see prestige going up. Because you get more prestige for cancelling the Tiger than you spend on PzIV.

If you are sure that you had a different issue, please send me the save taken right before the purchase, and tell me what unit(s) exactly you purchase and in which order. Some screenshots might help as well. Also, check the UI sidebar after you click "Purchase" button in the Purchase screen. Does it show the unit you've just purchased in the selected unit box?

[Kamerer]

OK, that might explain the prestige value movement. That makes sense.

But the game was still blocking the deployment of a purchased unit. I had lots of options of places to put it, but not allowed to. I have played the main PzCorp game through twice, and all GC games from 39 to 45 through twice. So I'm very familiar with the mechanics. This was something very odd I had never seen before.

As soon as I encounter it again, I'll save the game at that point and send it to you.

[Rudankort]

As soon as I encounter it again, I'll save the game at that point and send it to you.

When this happens again, could you please make a screenshot showing the purchased unit in the UI sidebar (if it does show there) and some locations on the map where it should be possible to place new unit but it is not allowed. Another useful thing to have on the screenshot would be open reserve panel. Maybe this can give us some clue.

[Razz1]

BETA 3
Colonel
start 7131
end 2167

Another well fought map.

The surprise was okay but, took them out right away
Lost my BMW with + 3 attack
Sometime you have to just push for it.
Upgrade to two Tigers.
Lost several bridge engineers trying to cross
My Tiger in South made and caused sever damage to the enemy
The South was too well defended so I slowly moved my good troops to the left and bought new infantry as I had slots and lost units. Forced my way across the two rivers only loosing the new infantry troops.
The pincher movement was complete.
Didn't expect the AT and lost a hero PZIV going after the airfield, so my second Tiger took it out while the rest of the troops completed the pincher movement.

DV 14/23

Not much prestige left and I never got the money bonus from the previous scenario as I noticed the dollar sign too late.

If I would have upgrade all my tanks to Tigers it would have been easy as per post above, but that's not how I play.