Cavalry Division Size???

[Blathergut]

The rule book suggests, near the beginning, that a cavalry division can be made up of only 2cavalry units, whereas an infantry division must contain at least 3 units. (page 17)

But ToN, page 158, states that all divisions must contain at least 3 units.

Could the power(s) that be clarify which is correct/intended for cavalry divisions?

[Andy1972]

I concur, making a list for Historcon... A Cuirassier Division is very pricy if I have to field 3 of them:-/

[Blathergut]

Not to be annoying, but I could use an answer on this for a game tomorrow.

[richafricanus]

Why not take a battery of artillery as your third unit?

[Blathergut]

I would if I had any points left!

I'm going with 2 units of dragoons in it for tomorrow unless clarification the other way happens in which case we have points problems to solve!!!

[Scrumpy]

I think you have a problem to solve, according to ToN 158.. All divisions must contain at least 3 units, no more than 1 srtillery unless specified in the army list...

[panda2]

I would have to agree with Scrumpy.

On p.158 "Underpinning the lists is a set of standard conditions and parameters that apply to ALL armies, except where an individual list states otherwise" (emphasis in original text)

One of these restrictions and parameters is that:

"All divisions must contain at least 3 units, no more than one of these may be artillery except as specified in the lists" p.158.

Therefore for all the armies covered by ToN the minima is 3 units per division. For armies not covered by ToN the composition of divisions would be as set out in the rulebook.

Andy D

[Blathergut]

okay...will work with that then...thanks for the thoughts

[CLAVDIVS]

Look at page 17 in the Rule book top of the page under Divisions:
2nd bullet point; A cavalry division: may not contain any infantry, but may contain up to 1 unit of Horse Artillery. IT must contain at least 2 Cavalry units.

[Blathergut]

Look at page 17 in the Rule book top of the page under Divisions:
2nd bullet point; A cavalry division: may not contain any infantry, but may contain up to 1 unit of Horse Artillery. IT must contain at least 2 Cavalry units.

This was the reason for the question, as this implies a cavalry division can exist with two cavalry units only in it.

[Blathergut]

Bumps the original question back up to the top in case it's noticed by a power that bee.

[terrys]

Look at page 17 in the Rule book top of the page under Divisions:
2nd bullet point; A cavalry division: may not contain any infantry, but may contain up to 1 unit of Horse Artillery. IT must contain at least 2 Cavalry units.

This was the reason for the question, as this implies a cavalry division can exist with two cavalry units only in it.

The Rule on numbers of units in a division is ended with ".....except as specified in the lists". In this particular case I would say that it is 2specified in the list" therefore just the 2 units would be OK for this division.

Having said that, I'm thinking that the restriction should match the one in the rulebook (P17).
> At least 2 units of cavalry and up to 1 unit of horse artillery

[panda2]

I'm not sure I understand the answer. You seem to be suggesting that because of the phrase "....except as specified in the list" we can treat p.17 of the rules as part of the list and ignore the restrictions on p.158 of ToN. Does this also apply to mixed divisions, can they also ignore ToN and field 4 cavalry units as specified in the rules? If not, why not?

Andy D

[deadtorius]

mixed Austrian divisions are restricted to 2 units of cavalry, at least thats what I have seen in the lists I have armies from so far, Have not spent much time looking at other nations lists so far. Thats how I made my mixed division for our game later today.

[panda2]

You re correct about Austian mixed divisions. In every case where they can be fielded there are list specific intructions on how many cavalry units they may contain. However, the same in not true for all lists (see French in 1809, Bavarians, Wurtenburg and Army of Italy in 1809, for example). If the general ruling is to be that the rules trump ToN p.158, then I can't see why they can't contain up to 4 units of cavalry in each mixed division.

Andy D

[deadtorius]

Hey thats not fair you are using intelligent reasoning in your response... and Blathergut would probably love to run all 4 of his Hussars in a single division.

I thought we Austrian types had to stick together

[Blathergut]

I know I can have more than two cavalry units in one cavalry division. The question (which truthfully, still isn't completely clarified) was if a cavalry division could have only two units in it.

From Terry's reply I assume that yes, this was the intent, that a cavalry division could be made up of only two cavalry units, and that the ToN point should (have) matched the rulebook description a bit more clearly.

So I will go with that for future battles.

As to mixed divisions, again ToN and the rulebook are a bit at odds perhaps. The rulebook states 'no more tha 4 of either' infantry & cavalry (so I read that as up to 4 units max, 2 of which must be infantry, 1 must be cavalry, the 4th either infantry or cavalry) plus 1 artillery unit. ToN suggests there could be more than 4 if you have more than 2 infantry.

[Simpleton]

I know I can have more than two cavalry units in one cavalry division. The question (which truthfully, still isn't completely clarified) was if a cavalry division could have only two units in it.

From Terry's reply I assume that yes, this was the intent, that a cavalry division could be made up of only two cavalry units, and that the ToN point should (have) matched the rulebook description a bit more clearly.

So I will go with that for future battles.

As to mixed divisions, again ToN and the rulebook are a bit at odds perhaps. The rulebook states 'no more tha 4 of either' infantry & cavalry (so I read that as up to 4 units max, 2 of which must be infantry, 1 must be cavalry, the 4th either infantry or cavalry) plus 1 artillery unit. ToN suggests there could be more than 4 if you have more than 2 infantry.

Then you get to the crazy Prussian 1813 mixed Divisions, they can have 2 cav units max and an artillery battery, but then they have to have more infantry units than any other units, so in this case they would need 4 infantry units making a total of 7 units in the division!

[deadtorius]

Thats crazy alright. Perhaps artillery does not count as a unit in this case

[terrys]

Then you get to the crazy Prussian 1813 mixed Divisions, they can have 2 cav units max and an artillery battery, but then they have to have more infantry units than any other units, so in this case they would need 4 infantry units making a total of 7 units in the division!

The minimum size for a mixed division is 2 infantry and 1 cavalry unit. (with 1 of the infantry units being Landwehr).
Ideally you should probably go for 3 infantry units, with 2 cavalry or 1 each of cavalry and artillery)...representing between 6,000 and 7,000 men.
If you go to 4 infantry units you can have the 2 cavalry AND an artillery unit, giving you about 8,500 men.