Scenarios and Redux scenarios

[tmoj2000]

Firstly the new ability to select one's forces is great! Well done

However there is a problem

Panthers and Tigers are a bargain, so all redux scenarios see hordes of these. The Panther is less than twice the cost of a Sherman, yet the conventional wisdon is that you need 5 shermans to kill a panther.... When you have a phalanx of panthers, the allies dont stand a chance.

In my view the prices of the german uber tanks should be revised up

Question: why are the maps to the redux scenarios slightly different from the regular ones (e.g. a few buildings missing) ?

A note also on the regular scenarios, some of them are in serious need of balancing. After having played many times over with many different opponents, here are some suggestions on the most unbalanced ones:

Clash of armor: never seen an allied win here, the 3 german panthers are too much to handle.... The allied forces should be increased by 5 or 6 sherman 76s

Desert fort: germans are very disadvantaged, a couple of panzer 3s would help

Desert rats: almost impossible for the germans.... The stuka is useless as it gets shot down by the british AA,,,, should be replaced by arty.... And the germans should also get some on board arty

Buying time: either shorten the game or add a couple of Sherman 76s to the allied forces

Race for the town: 4 panthers and a king tiger! no way for the allies to win.........A least 4 extra sherman 76s are needed to balance

River line and town fight: poor french ! give them more tanks so they have a chance

[cardiffian]

I agree with you mate. Remove the King Tiger and replace it with a Panther. Also a very good point concerning Sherman's v heavy panzers. The Allied player should have more tanks but also expect to lose a lot of them taking on the panzers. Now all we need is a scenario designer to rebalance the scenario's!

[joelq]

I agree. The redux missions seem to be seriously undermined by the volume of German heavy armour that can be purchased. If the opponents skill level is equal then Axis should win regularly with the current force selection rules imho.

Buying Time scenario could also do with a reduction of the turns required from what ive experienced.

Capture the Crossing id like to see the bridge flag moved a few squares on the Allied side of the river. Its too easy to park a Panther near the bridge with the Allies having no chance of a flanking shot.

Bare in mind these are the opinions of a n00b.

[gortwillsaveus]

A note also on the regular scenarios, some of them are in serious need of balancing. After having played many times over with many different opponents, here are some suggestions on the most unbalanced ones:

Clash of armor: never seen an allied win here, the 3 german panthers are too much to handle.... The allied forces should be increased by 5 or 6 sherman 76s

Desert fort: germans are very disadvantaged, a couple of panzer 3s would help

Desert rats: almost impossible for the germans.... The stuka is useless as it gets shot down by the british AA,,,, should be replaced by arty.... And the germans should also get some on board arty

Buying time: either shorten the game or add a couple of Sherman 76s to the allied forces

Race for the town: 4 panthers and a king tiger! no way for the allies to win.........A least 4 extra sherman 76s are needed to balance

River line and town fight: poor french ! give them more tanks so they have a chance

I'd like to counter some of your critiques of the original scenarios:

Clash of Armor: Don't change a thing! I win 8 out of 10 times as Allies. Not that I'm going to tell anyone how,..but the people I've played know some of my tactics. When I first played this scenario,..I must have lost like 30 times in a row as Allies. But, I was determined to find a way to win. Now, unless I'm playing a superb player,..I can win almost every time as Allies.

Desert Fort: I agree with you. The German need at least another 2 Tanks to make this somewhat even. I have yet to see anyone win as Germans. I still play it though, since I'm trying to see if there's some tactic that will overcome the Allies. The biggest problem is the 3 Crusaders. As Germans, the only way I see them winning is if you get supremely lucky on a bombardment,..or your British opponent makes supremely big mistakes. Essentially the British can "camp out" and play defense all day long on the high ground.

Desert Rats: I somewhat agree. But, when you say "almost impossible",...this means to me that it "is possible". I have won as Germans a few times,..and when I do win,..I love it, because I know how tough a defense I set up that the British couldn't get through. Very satisfying win. I am in the middle of a game now where I'm the British and my opponent played masterfully, and deserves the win.

Buying Time: Another scenario that can seem one-sided, but you really have to use tactics to pull out a win. However, I do agree that if you're opponent camps out, you almost can never win this as Allies.

Race for the Town: See, I think this is all about tactics. Plus the person who plays as Germans can easily squander the Panther and Tiger advantage. Actually, I think the Tiger adds nothing for the Germans in this game. It's too slow,..breaks down,..and can be easily overwhelmed if it gets too close to any enemy troops. I vote to leave this, as is.

River Line and Town Fight: Now here's where I totally agree with you in one respect. There's no fight here,...the French are no match. But then again, this is probably historical, no?? The one thing that makes these two games unplayable for me as the French is hearing them yell,..."NOOooooooooooooo!" over and over and over again.

[tmoj2000]

Clash of Armor: Don't change a thing! I win 8 out of 10 times as Allies. Not that I'm going to tell anyone how,..but the people I've played know some of my tactics. When I first played this scenario,..I must have lost like 30 times in a row as Allies. But, I was determined to find a way to win. Now, unless I'm playing a superb player,..I can win almost every time as Allies.

Race for the Town: See, I think this is all about tactics. Plus the person who plays as Germans can easily squander the Panther and Tiger advantage. Actually, I think the Tiger adds nothing for the Germans in this game. It's too slow,..breaks down,..and can be easily overwhelmed if it gets too close to any enemy troops. I vote to leave this, as is.

He He,,,,, happy to play anytime on clash of armor and race for the town with myself as Axis

[gortwillsaveus]

Clash of Armor: Don't change a thing! I win 8 out of 10 times as Allies. Not that I'm going to tell anyone how,..but the people I've played know some of my tactics. When I first played this scenario,..I must have lost like 30 times in a row as Allies. But, I was determined to find a way to win. Now, unless I'm playing a superb player,..I can win almost every time as Allies.

Race for the Town: See, I think this is all about tactics. Plus the person who plays as Germans can easily squander the Panther and Tiger advantage. Actually, I think the Tiger adds nothing for the Germans in this game. It's too slow,..breaks down,..and can be easily overwhelmed if it gets too close to any enemy troops. I vote to leave this, as is.

He He,,,,, happy to play anytime on clash of armor and race for the town with myself as Axis

Uh-oh,...I opened my big mouth,..hahahaha
I'm not able to create any games right now, can you create the Clash of Armor with password of: gort
I'll jump on when I get home. We'll try the other one when this one's done.

[gortwillsaveus]

tmoj2000: Saw you joined the Clash of Armor game I setup. Awesome! I wish you the best of luck.

Will have to give some form of play-by-play without giving away information.
In any event,...we'll certainly give an after action report.

[gortwillsaveus]

Well,..while I'd like to give an after action report,..there really is not much to say, but I lost,...and lost in a big way.
tmoj2000 had an awesome attack/defense,..and I wasted too many of my tanks on a plan of attack that failed in a HUGE way.

Hats off to you my friend!

However,..that doesn't mean I changed my mind on this particular game.
I created a new game and hopefully we can try this again.
Thanks for showing a nice attack for the Germans,..it was masterful.

[tmoj2000]

Well I have to pay hommage to Gort's sportmanship and willingness to take on almost impossible odds

Still, the german panzer phalanx is too much for the allies

Thus in the first game the allies lost 18 tanks to the german 3 and in the second one 15 to 4 before giving up (the game could have been continued but the end result was not in doubt)

So I stand by my statement that Clash of Armor heavily favors the german and the allies should get an extra 5 to 6 Sherman 76s for balance

Still I am happy to play against anyone who thinks the allies can win this one

[GottaLove88s]

Hey tmoj, Try this one -> viewtopic.php?f=87&t=35532&sid=495e31dd ... a6#p333768.

I've had a go at modifying the Meeting Engagement Redux scenario to balance out your hordes of King Tigers/Panthers problem. It's the same awesome map but the Allies get two free 76s and can also buy higher powered Sherman Fireflies and 17 pdr artillery. Both sides can buy up to eight transports, two come free, so there's a lot of zipping around the map to claim flags and set ambushes early on.

If you find any glitches or would like improvements, please let me know... We want to add RF900's code to allow merging of damaged units, and another code to prevent artillery/airstrikes for the first three turns (because experienced players know where everything starts).

[gortwillsaveus]

Well I have to pay hommage to Gort's sportmanship and willingness to take on almost impossible odds

Still, the german panzer phalanx is too much for the allies

Thus in the first game the allies lost 18 tanks to the german 3 and in the second one 15 to 4 before giving up (the game could have been continued but the end result was not in doubt)

So I stand by my statement that Clash of Armor heavily favors the german and the allies should get an extra 5 to 6 Sherman 76s for balance

Still I am happy to play against anyone who thinks the allies can win this one

Yes,..I willingly admit defeat.
However,..I did say that I win 8 out of 10 times as Allies.
Those 2 game losses are usually against people with great tactics like yourself.
I could not find the crack in your defense,..and knew as soon as I turned the corner,..I had lost by the 3rd turn.
You should play as allies against others,....I see your tactics as being so good that you should be able to defeat more than 1/2 the people you play.

[tmoj2000]

Well it seems that in the new version, prices on German machinery have gone up in redux scenarios:)

Let's see how it works out....

[IainMcNeil]

Yes we rebalanced everything so very interested to hear if the new balance feels more even.

[Old_Warrior]

The Fuel Dump scenario in Bulge Campaign - actually TAKING the fuel dump was never possible. They blew the dump before the Germans could get there. What I would say is that perhaps the scenario was built with the idea in mind that it would TAKE 20 "turns" worth of "time" to wire it. Was that the line of thinking?

But from what I have read of the fuel dumps they were ready to go a day before the Germans showed up. Or at least a few hours ahead of the lead unit.

We cannot blow the fuel containers. I would like to see where you could do that with items. I would point to the nice SAS/LRDG Campaign that was put together where the troops arrive at the airfield. The airplanes are static in the game yet usually were filled with fuel for the next day's mission. Static items like that should be an item that can be changed to a damaged graphic. Any chance of that happening?

[tmoj2000]

Well the new "prices" have done wonders for the redux scenarios

Much more balanced now, less of those panthers/tigers roaming about = thanks

One issue with the street fighting redux scenario though... Too may US mobile mortars (those can kill panthers with indirect fire).....

Finally question: why so little trucks available for purchase (most of the time there aren't any) ?

Also a wish: would be nice if we could place our units (as in the arnhem scenario for the brits) at start