pursuit into new target

[deadtorius]

I know this has been brought up before but in our game today the Austrian infantry had broken their opponents and failed to catch them in puirsuit. Now about 1 Mu to the pursuers left and almost at the end of the pursuit move was a nice flank of French Conscripts that were wavering. I had wanted to divert to hit their flank, but the French said that the Austrians could not wheel enough without losing forward movement to hit them. The Austrians were a large unit 3 wide. In the end I agreed and ended just behind them at a right angle to their rear. Was that a correct call on the move?

[terrys]

Page 31:

If the target of an assault or pursuit moves out of range, then the moving unit may wheel towards the next nearest target which was within 2MU of the original target before it moved, or within 2MU of the path of a retire move.

If the conscripts were within 2MU of the path of the enemy retire move, the pursuers may wheel towards them in an attempt to contact them. Their move, including the wheel must not exceed the distance of the pursuit move. Forwards movement is irrelevent - if the pursuing unit can contact this new unit it becomes a new target. If it cannot reach a new target it must continue its pusuit of the original retiring unit.

[deadtorius]

Thats what we thought but a 3 wide unit takes a bit to wheel so did not think they had enough move to make it.

[hazelbark]

Page 31:
If the target of an assault or pursuit moves out of range, then the moving unit may wheel towards the next nearest target which was within 2MU of the original target before it moved, or within 2MU of the path of a retire move.

A critical piece that is easy to overlook as this rule is in the evade moves area and not in the pursuit section. This reference needs updating in the index too.

[Caratacus2021]

My opponent and I searched to find the definition of direction of pursuit, but couldn't find it. (Directly forward, or following the pursued?)

Since the only rule I have seen about contacting new targets (I think) mentions pursuers being outdistanced, we assumed that pursuers with a long enough pursuit move to maintain contact would follow the enemy even if that enemy deviates to go through a gap. They would not pursue straight forward into a new target exposed by the routing enemy deviating.

Is that the intention?

[deadtorius]

pursuit is following the original target. it is a straight path following the evader/routers path. If you can not catch your original target then you can pursue into a new target as long as it is within 2 MU of the path of the target units move.

Basically if you have to follow them. if you can't catch them then you can attack some other poor unsuspecting target that is close enough along that path. If you do catch your original target you don't get to attack a new target.

[BrettPT]

The pursuit moves are the area of the rules that have caused us problems as well.

1. If the retiring unit 'slides' to get around troops behind it, do the pursuers slide as well if they can catch the retiring unit (ie they go around without fighting the troops in between). There is nothing in the rules to say whether they slide or wheel (or do neither).

2. If you can catch the retiring unit, this is your target and you cannot go after any new enemy unit.

3. If the retiring unit bursts through friends behind, the pursuers may attack the burst through troops (as you cannot now reach the retiring unit). You could alternatively target a different enemy unit if one exists within 2MU. The rules don't say what happens if you choose not to target the burst through troops (nor any other new target).

4. If you cannot catch the retiring unit, then you may choose to target any new enemy formation within 2MU of the retiring unit's path of retreat.

5. If you cannot reach the retiring unit and no new unit is available, you "complete your full move distance in the direction of the original assault or pursuit" (page 31). To my reading this means pursue straight ahead, but it is possible to argue that you instead follow the path of the retiring unit.

6. Page 31 says that, if the target moves out of range you may go after someone else within 2MU. It also says that if no new target is available you move as 5 above. The obvious issue here is when you have a new target available, but you choose not to charge it. What do you do then, stop the pursuit and do nothing?

My take on this is to amend the word "available" to "chosen" - which I assume isthe intention - so if you choose not to engage a new target then you go straight ahead (or follow the path of the retiring enemy - depending on your view).

7. The new target must take a CT is it is wavering

8. If you reach the new target within half your pursuit move, no other tests are taken, you fight that combat now.

9. If the new target is not reached in the first half of the move, then the target takes a CT if it is infantry being charged by mounted. It can form square, countercharge or evade as normal but if it 'stands', it cannot shoot. Fight the combat next turn.

10. Infantry/skirmisher pursuers can contact mounted or other troops in a pursuit that they usually can't charge (nothing in the rules either way about this, but Terry has clarified this is the case in previous posts).

Our playtest group had regular problems with the pursuit rules during playtests. However I know that the author's group had no issue with the pursuit moves and found them quite clear. I'm not sure whether we are just over argumentative - debate tends to come when a pursuing unit really wants to pursue into that juicy artillery unit/avoid that nasty Curiassier regiment!

Cheers
Brett

[Blathergut]

Can you 'slide' past enemy? If not, then that would also mean you can't catch your original target.

[BrettPT]

Can you 'slide' past enemy? If not, then that would also mean you can't catch your original target.

Don't know, the rules seem silent on this.

[Caratacus2021]

None of those replies specifically address the case of routing troops pivoting to deviate through a gap (as opposed to sliding - my routers contracted from 3 wide to 2 wide and pivoted to enter an 'angled' gap partly behind them). But please be clear about this - I am not talking about a "straight path" pursuit, nor pursuers sliding sideways. To stay in touch, the pursuers would have to wheel, but they had plenty of move distance to do so.

As long as the intent is "keep in contact if you can" (logical enough) then I'm quite happy with that.

[deadtorius]

Can you 'slide' past enemy?

I recall reading somewhere that if you are blocked by enemy or impassible you stop 1 MU short of whatever you can not pass. So sounds like you would stop short and probably get caught in the rear. Unless I am thinking routing, but thought it had to do with evades etc.

None of those replies specifically address the case of routing troops pivoting to deviate through a gap

By my own understanding the rules state you have to follow your targets path, so if they wheel to get through a gap you would also wheel after them.
If they shift I would think you would have to wheel and are more likely going to end up slamming. into whatever they shifted around. I don't recall the rules stating that you can shift to avoid enemy

As far as evaders bursting through, if your pursuit would have kept you in contact with your original target if the burst through troops were not there I would think you would slam into the burst through unit. It appears that you have to make your full pursuit move, so if that would carry into a burst through enemy, its "clobbering time". keep in mind that you were hot on their tails and suddenly slam into some other unit that you didn't see until the last minute, because they burst through an unsuspecting friendly unit.

If your pursuit move will not catch the evaders/routers you still make your full move, following the evaders/ routers path. If your move would end with you out of contact that's where you end the turn. If you can't catch them and another target you would like to attack is within 2 MU of the rout/evade path, you can choose to hit them instead.

[Crabbie1]

I have had a similar problem were horse arty has limbered and moved away my Cav pursued could not catch the horse arty but could target a inf Batt in tac formation. We check and talk about if the Inf Could form square and decided they could. But reading the post in this example if the Inf could be contacted in the first half of my move they don't get to react e.g. Form square or conduct defencive fire? Is this correct?

Thanks

[deadtorius]

yes if you catch a target in the first half of a pursuit move they can not make any kind of reaction move, so no forming square, skirmishers don't evade. If you catch them in the second half of the move they can make a normal reaction move, attempt to form square, skirmishers evade.
In either case the new target does not get to shoot.

[terrys]

1. If the retiring unit 'slides' to get around troops behind it, do the pursuers slide as well if they can catch the retiring unit (ie they go around without fighting the troops in between). There is nothing in the rules to say whether they slide or wheel (or do neither).

Pursuers can't slide. They will wheel to go after the retiring unit(s).

2. If you can catch the retiring unit, this is your target and you cannot go after any new enemy unit.

Correct.

3. If the retiring unit bursts through friends behind, the pursuers may attack the burst through troops (as you cannot now reach the retiring unit). You could alternatively target a different enemy unit if one exists within 2MU. The rules don't say what happens if you choose not to target the burst through troops (nor any other new target).

You can't choose not to target a new enemy unit. You must go your full distance in the direction of the pursuit unless you contact another enemy.
Unfortunately the rules for this is under EVADES on page 31 rather than in the pursuit section.

4. If you cannot catch the retiring unit, then you may choose to target any new enemy formation within 2MU of the retiring unit's path of retreat.

As above you can choose to move your full move in the direction of the reiring unit, OR you can conatact any other enemy within 2MU of the direction of yuor pursuit.

5. If you cannot reach the retiring unit and no new unit is available, you "complete your full move distance in the direction of the original assault or pursuit" (page 31). To my reading this means pursue straight ahead, but it is possible to argue that you instead follow the path of the retiring unit.

Pusuit would be in the direction of the retiring unit. (otherwise it's not really a 'pursuit')

6. Page 31 says that, if the target moves out of range you may go after someone else within 2MU. It also says that if no new target is available you move as 5 above. The obvious issue here is when you have a new target available, but you choose not to charge it. What do you do then, stop the pursuit and do nothing?

My take on this is to amend the word "available" to "chosen" - which I assume isthe intention - so if you choose not to engage a new target then you go straight ahead (or follow the path of the retiring enemy - depending on your view).

You MUST move either:
a) Your full move distance
or b) Into contact with an enemy unit.

7. The new target must take a CT is it is wavering

Correct.

8. If you reach the new target within half your pursuit move, no other tests are taken, you fight that combat now.

You fight the combat immediately - However:
A unit of infantry within 2MU and not in square immediately drops a cohesion level if the pursuers are cavalry.
A unit that is (or becomes) wavering must test for being charged.

9. If the new target is not reached in the first half of the move, then the target takes a CT if it is infantry being charged by mounted. It can form square, countercharge or evade as normal but if it 'stands', it cannot shoot. Fight the combat next turn.

Correct.

10. Infantry/skirmisher pursuers can contact mounted or other troops in a pursuit that they usually can't charge (nothing in the rules either way about this, but Terry has clarified this is the case in previous posts).

Correct - However they can choose not to purue if there is enemy cavalry within 6MU (Page 60).

[Caratacus2021]

Terrys - thanks for that comprehensive reply, since the rules do not actually explicitly state that pursuers must follow enemy (if anyone believes they do, I'd like to see a direct quote from the rule book!), these explanations are a great help.

Cheers.