US options: AT guns/mortars... or extra shots? or M26?

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GottaLove88s
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3151
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:18 pm
Location: Palau

US options: AT guns/mortars... or extra shots? or M26?

Post by GottaLove88s »

Pip/Iain, Thanks for the 2.0.3 rollout. Other than the free M18 in Close Combat (a Sherman 76 would be less weak in defence) everything feels nicely balanced... I was considering more on the challenge of how to take out a well prepared opponent with 2 or 3 Panthers and infantry in close support... it can't be done with bazookas because you won't get enough bazookas close enough, if he's got scouts... you can't do it with 76s that have to approach from any direction he can see you, because his tanks outgun and out-armour you...

Four options;
(i) draw him out somehow (not always possible if he's patient),
(ii) use artillery support or other bombard to shift him (but artillery not always available in all of the new maps, and even two Priests or two Calliopes will only drop a King Tiger's morale from 100 to 55, so won't even suppress),
(iii) find a way to sneak in fixed AT guns (6 pdr or 25 pdr) or mortars to take a ranged side shot (but fixed artillery/mortars not yet available in force selection choices), or
(iv) if we could, by some miracle, find a route not protected by infantry, to bring a 76 or an M36 into a firing position BEHIND his 2-3 Panthers, could the game engine be persuaded to let us take extra shots? 8 times of 10, you won't knock out a Panther with one shot from a 76, even from behind; but unless you're unlucky, you should get it with two from behind, although you won't from the front or side... so even if you can get a 76 into the right place, if he's got more than one Panther, you're only getting one kill and the other Panthers will kill you, from any direction, next turn...

Historical context: Well placed armour can take more than two shots before inevitably dying from return fire
Barkmann, operating with his platoon or even as a lone Panther, caused heavy casualties to the advancing Americans, destroying many tanks and armoured vehicles. On the morning of July 27th, Barkmann found himself in his Panther cut off from the rest of his company. While attempting to reach his unit, he was stopped near the village of Le Lorey where he was told by German infantrymen that the Americans were closing in with a large armoured column. Barkmann positioned his Panther under a stand of oaks near the crossroads where the American tanks would have to pass.

As the column came into sight, Barkmann knocked out the two lead Shermans and a fuel tanker truck. Next he destroyed two Shermans which had attempted to bypass the burning tanker. The Americans called in fighter-bombers, which damaged Barkmann's Panther and wounded two of his crewmen. Barkmann's next victims were two Shermans that had used the noise of the fighter-bombers as cover to sneak up on the damaged Panther's flank. As Barkmann's crew repaired the Panther, two more Shermans were knocked out. Finally, before leaving, Barkmann destroyed one last Sherman.

Although it wasn't always as uneven as this, Barkmann's Corner, where he supposedly knocked out nine US tanks plus other support vehicles, illustrates the differential kill ratio between Panthers and M4 Shermans...

http://www.panzerace.net/english/pz_per ... z1xBJ5vxF8
Alternative historical option: If saving extra shots (maybe four shots rather than two, if you've "saved" them) for rear attacks on Panthers/Tigers is unworkable, how about letting Allied forces choose a limited number (only 1 or 2) M26 Pershings? Just the regular M26E3 Pershing with the stronger armour, 90mm gun and underpowered traction problems (sound familiar to any buyers of Tiger IIs? ;-)). Too few of the M26E4 Super Pershings were used to be a realistic option for BA
The heavy U.S. tank losses in the Battle of the Bulge against a concentrated German tank force composed of some 400 Panther tanks, as well as Tiger II tanks and other German armored fighting vehicles, revealed the deficiencies in the M4 Shermans and tank destroyers on the U.S. side. On 22 December 1944, while the battle still raged, the brand new T26E3 tanks were ordered to be deployed to Europe. The unexpected German tank attack had settled the question once and for all as to whether the T26 was needed. Twenty were sent in the first shipment arriving at the port of Antwerp in January 1945. They were given to the 1st Army, split between the 3rd and 9th Armored Divisions. A total of 310 T26E3 tanks would be sent to Europe before VE Day

http://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/feature ... hing.1.htm
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347
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