Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Diplomaticus
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Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

Gang,

If you've been following Max's AAR, you can see that our game is winding down. We're now in October 1944, with only a dozen turns left to go. I decided to start this thread to share my own reflections on what has been, and continues to be, the most fun, fascinating, and challenging game of CEAW I've ever played.

First, I'll start out by briefly stating the present situation from my point of view. Here are a couple of screen shots (these don't give anything away, so it's okay to look at these, Max!).

Beginning of Allied turn in Germany, October 4 1944:
Image

and Italy:
Image

With so little time left, Max is still in solid shape. Yes, his front is slowly giving, but the key word is "slowly." I'll be lucky to hammer through it in time. In the West, the Allies have landed, but as you can see from the screen shot above, Max has several panzers poised to punish the American invaders, so there's no easy road to Hamburg.

The big picture is this: Max still holds Rome, Paris, Berlin and Hamburg. If I get unlucky with weather and/or make some tactical mistakes, he has a chance still of holding all of these by the end. I've chosen not to send a major force against Paris, gambling that I can perhaps take Hamburg with the Allies. But if that fails, he may end with 3-4 capitals--that's a serious Axis victory. On the other hand, I think it's still possible--again depending on weather, certain key dice rolls, and perfect tactics on my part--for the Allies to pull off a minor victory or a draw. I point this out because I think it showcases one of the things that has made this such a great match. Here, only a half-year left to the game, and the final result is still anybody's guess.

(to be continued)
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

THE WAR AT SEA

Back in 1940, as soon as I realized that I was up against Max's Fortress Europa strategy, which I'd followed with great interest in his earlier AAR vs. Zechi, I saw that the battle for command of the seas was going to be crucial. Would Max build an even huger navy? Would he again invade North America? I was thinking particularly about how brazenly Max was able to send subs striking at Zechi's CV's in port and to enjoy complete command of the North Atlantic even after the USA entered the game. I was also painfully aware of just how vulnerable the RN would be once the full morale penalty for the loss of England kicked in. Finally, I started thinking about 1942 and beyond and what tools I would need to project US/UK power back into Europe.

With those thoughts in mind, I began to implement my naval strategy:

1) I began to assemble a Grand Fleet. My strategy would be to gather together the entire RN surface fleet, supplemented by the surviving French (I only lost 1 French BB during Sea Lion), and using the subs as scouts to make sure I didn't get surprised. Knowing that my fleet would be in no shape to give battle against a combined Axis fleet, I retreated to Canada, under the protection of the RAF (I managed to escape with the entire RAF + the Armee de l'air). My plan was to hole up in relatively safe waters until the US entered the war and my morale started to come up. I invested heavily in naval tech, so during this time I rotated units to port for upgrades.

2) I knew that PP would be a limiting factor, and anyway I had sub 75% UK manpower into 1942, so I limited my builds and repairs to absolute essentials.

3) Thinking ahead, I realized that I would only be able to get a foothold in Europe again with air power, so I built a couple of USA CV's, which would give me a total of 5 carriers. The only other shipping built by the Americans was a set of 3 subs, to give me a total of 7. I chose to build American subs because they start with quite good sub tech. Other than that, I would build no ships at all, except for one or two British DD's. With the combined USN, RN and French navy (to be supplemented in Nov '42 by the Free French BB in Agadir), I felt that I would have enough strength to get the job done. BB's cannot take and hold ground, and I couldn't afford to waste precious PP's that I would need to build a land army. This may surprise some, since it was pretty clear that Max already had a strong fleet and was likely to build more, but my naval strategy of keeping the fleet together and of fighting only where I had at least air parity made me confident in this decision. My sub spies told me that I had a good edge in naval technology, so I wasn't afraid to go head-to-head vs the Axis. The one thing I was afraid of was the u-boat menace.

4) To deal with what I feared would be a massive German and Italian sub force, I built strategic bombers, especially Brit ones, since their ASW tech was advanced. I wanted especially the long range of those bombers that would give me operational flexibility at sea.

5) Max did bring most of his combined fleet into American waters in the fall of 1941, and he obliterated some convoys (the only time in the war when he attacked Allied convoys at all!), but the second the USA entered the fight, he fled eastward. I instantly sent my considerable sub squadrons out and caught some of his retreating ships. To me, this was a sign that my naval strategy was working. I didn't want to end up pinned up against my own shores as had happened to Zechi.

When I look back, I stand by my choices when it came to builds. I certainly didn't need any more BB's or DD's; every single sub was essential; and those carriers were key to my operations in Morocco and Great Britain.

Max has emailed me saying that he was unhappy about his own fleet, but I'll say this: Knowing that Max had very strong naval power kept me cautious. I didn't dare send anything into the Mediterranean until 1944 because I didn't dare divide my forces. I had to be very careful to operate my navy only in places where I had land-based air cover. It's true that Max's fleet ended up being more a 'fleet in being' than an active force, but I think Max may be underestimating its strategic effects.

(to be continued)
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

THE USSR, 1939-APRIL 1942

By spring 1940 I was sure I was up against Fortress Europa, so I shifted my Russian strategy for builds & labs. Basically, I made air labs priority #1. This came at the expense of my armor labs, but something had to give. Again, based on what I'd seen in the original AAR vs. Zechi, I figured that Soviet tanks would be nearly useless unless I had control of the skies. Max just used his Stukas to bomb every Russian tank he saw--I had no intention of playing that game again.

Other than that, I quite simply saved all my PP"s. I don't think I purchased a single Russian unit until early 1942. This meant that by the time Max finally launched Barbarossa, I had saved up in excess of 2,500PP.

Now, that massive amount of production, combined with a starting Soviet 178PP/turn, might make it seem like you have infinite resources and can afford to be sloppy, but that's a dangerous attitude. Those production points go way faster than you'd believe, once you start paying for labs, aircraft, leaders, etc. Since my strategy meant contending for air supremacy, I had to have an absolute ton of PP's available for aircraft and repairs. Once I had maxed out fighter and tacs (12 @, I think), bought some top leaders, and maxed my labs, I still had tons of PP. But Max's Barbarossa scared me into buying a bunch of corps and a handful of gar. Looking back on it now, I wish I had bought none of the gar and maybe 2-3 fewer corps, but otherwise I needed all that I purchased. I also over-did it a bit on leaders. If I had saved on these, I could have had a couple hundred more PP's, which would have come in very handy in 1943.

By the time of Max's Barbarossa, I was still sitting on a reserve of 300-500 PP. And boy am I glad I had that. In order to fight Max in the air, I had to be prepared to accept roughly 3x the casualties in aircraft that he took with the Luftwaffe. That PP reserve vanished after a few turns of clear weather in 1943, so I'm glad I had it.

In the end, my air strategy worked. By the end of summer 1944 the Luftwaffe was extinct. However, the price was very high--an under-size, under-tech Soviet tank corps. In the end, that may cost me the game.
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by joerock22 »

Overall, I think you've played this game very well. Initially it seemed that Max's strategy was almost invincible, and I think he and most observers are surprised and impressed that you've done this well. Your analysis of the situation, and the best ways to counter the strategies Max used against Zechi, make a lot of sense. It wasn't perfect, like you said, but nobody ever plays a perfect game.

I do have one question though; did you max out Soviet mechs? Mechs, especially guard mechs or ones with +1 attack leaders, are better than Russian tanks in my opinion. Once you hit the rough terrain, and German anti-tank tech goes up, the tanks aren't very useful. Even a guard corps can outperform them. We can also see in Max's screenshots that your powerful offensive units are not really concentrated. What I try to do when going after an entrenched German unit is hit it with 2 bombers and then a combination of 3 mechs, tanks, or guard corps. That's really the only way to ensure the German unit's destruction, which is what you're after. In 1944, you need to kill units and take hexes; causing damage to units doesn't matter as much as. If this means only attacking 2-3 units per turn, then so be it; at least you will give yourself a good chance to destroy the units that you do attack.

Just a couple questions/suggestions. I think you are going to run out of time in this game, but the fact that Max is going to have to make alterations to his very strong Fortress Europa strategy speaks volumes. I'm not sure I could've done much better in your shoes. Kudos! :)
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Cybvep »

I agree with Joe. For a while it looked like Max had a chance to score a crushing victory, because he dominated the Allies everywhere and his defence lines were very strong. However, you were patient and careful and now it looks like it will be a lesser victory for Max, unless you get unlucky.
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

Thanks, guys, for the feedback. I have to say that I am among those surprised at the way the game is ending up. As you say, Max looked absolutely invincible for a long time there. I'll post some more details that will help explain my view on what turned it around for the Allies.
joerock22 wrote:I do have one question though; did you max out Soviet mechs? Mechs, especially guard mechs or ones with +1 attack leaders, are better than Russian tanks in my opinion. Once you hit the rough terrain, and German anti-tank tech goes up, the tanks aren't very useful. Even a guard corps can outperform them. We can also see in Max's screenshots that your powerful offensive units are not really concentrated....
I definitely did max out my mechs at all points, but I think you're right that I didn't efficiently concentrate my best units. Part of that is due to the fact that a) Max kept me busy running after him as he retreated, and b) during this time, I was having trouble moving + repairing + upgrading my key offensive units. I'm sure I could have done better, so your feedback is very welcome. Always more to learn!
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by joerock22 »

Diplomaticus wrote:I definitely did max out my mechs at all points, but I think you're right that I didn't efficiently concentrate my best units. Part of that is due to the fact that a) Max kept me busy running after him as he retreated, and b) during this time, I was having trouble moving + repairing + upgrading my key offensive units. I'm sure I could have done better, so your feedback is very welcome. Always more to learn!
Definitely true. I think I would've tried to play a similar game to you, but I wouldn't have a) used the Red air force until it was stronger, or b) attacked in those multiple side-show fronts with the Western Allies. On the one hand, the Russians would have been stronger with this strategy, as they would have had more PPs to build new units. But on the flip side, Max would've had a lot more oil--who knows how that would have worked out. Would his Axis fleet have crushed the British and American one? Would his panzers have crushed the landings in Scotland? Would he have launched a counteroffensive in the east? Truth be told, I've never won a game by forcing the Axis to run out of oil; it's just not my style. But you made it work here, and as Max himself says in his AAR, oil is the ultimate weakness of his Fotress Europa strategy. So I'm glad it was you and not me! :)
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Morris »

It is great you show this AAR from another side ( the Allies view) ! Until now ,your performance is perfect (since you never thought Max would use this strategy at the beginning of this game )! Even if you will finally lose this game by bad luck , it also showed everyone how to deal with this strategy !

Regarding to the skill of make break through at the Germany's eastern defence , You may read the my AAR with Joe . He will show you the right way . But in my AAR , Joe also did a quite farsighted decision to open the first USSR lab on Airforce & also focus on dogfight ! His USSR ftr achieved lvl 12 & top dogfight 9 in Mid 1944 . How about yours ?
Anyway , maybe you won't need this since Max's great Luftwaffe will run out of fuel .
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by richardsd »

Diplomaticus wrote:Gang,

If you've been following Max's AAR, you can see that our game is winding down. We're now in October 1944, with only a dozen turns left to go. I decided to start this thread to share my own reflections on what has been, and continues to be, the most fun, fascinating, and challenging game of CEAW I've ever played.

First, I'll start out by briefly stating the present situation from my point of view. Here are a couple of screen shots (these don't give anything away, so it's okay to look at these, Max!).

Beginning of Allied turn in Germany, October 4 1944:
Image

and Italy:
Image

With so little time left, Max is still in solid shape. Yes, his front is slowly giving, but the key word is "slowly." I'll be lucky to hammer through it in time. In the West, the Allies have landed, but as you can see from the screen shot above, Max has several panzers poised to punish the American invaders, so there's no easy road to Hamburg.

The big picture is this: Max still holds Rome, Paris, Berlin and Hamburg. If I get unlucky with weather and/or make some tactical mistakes, he has a chance still of holding all of these by the end. I've chosen not to send a major force against Paris, gambling that I can perhaps take Hamburg with the Allies. But if that fails, he may end with 3-4 capitals--that's a serious Axis victory. On the other hand, I think it's still possible--again depending on weather, certain key dice rolls, and perfect tactics on my part--for the Allies to pull off a minor victory or a draw. I point this out because I think it showcases one of the things that has made this such a great match. Here, only a half-year left to the game, and the final result is still anybody's guess.

(to be continued)
Is it just me or do other people find it strange that capitals aren't defended by maximum entrenched MECH's with defence leaders (maybe the Allies won't get that far) but I have had some nasty experiences around this - one occaision I can remember one defending for three truns (and I think one of mine has too!)
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Morris »

If one of the Allies para ....... :lol:
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

THE ALLIES' BIG MISTAKES

Big Mistake #1. Sea Lion.
Max Blitzed me right away, and in short order I was looking at an early loss of France. Before I lost France, though, I lost my head and panicked. (You could say this was my own fault, and it was, but it was also a 'forced error'--not the first in this game!--where Max's brilliantly aggressive style pushed me out of my comfort zone.) So I sent some British units, including the UK mech, to try to keep France in the game longer. Big mistake.

France was doomed in any case, and staving off the fall of Paris for a turn or at most two, which is what I bought with those units, wasn't worth not having them there where I really needed them in the defense of England.


Big Mistake #2. Agadir.

Image

I do not regret making Agadir my opening action--a sort of Operation Torch. When the USA first entered the war I was nowhere near ready for a major engagement, and the port of Agadir was one of my few options not requiring a big amphibious operation. My main motivation in landing there was to lay the groundwork for the arrival of the Free French in November 1942 [note that since Max refused the Armistice, the Free French activation happens automatically in No. '42].

No, my mistake was letting myself get outmaneuvered by Max when he countered my attack on Casablanca with a big end-around amphibious landing. Result: I lost my entire Agadir contingent (mech, corps, tank, gar) plus an American tactical bomber (ouch!).

There was a silver lining to this ugly cloud. Max's victory came at a price. He used oil for his transports and DD's. He lost a number of units & steps, including a DD sunk. And he lost the 8PP@ for several transports that he used to surround my forces. And finally he had a pretty considerable force tied up in the desert when it might have been of use elsewhere. This doesn't erase or justify my error, but it was a compensation.


Big Mistake #3. Libya.

Now, when Max launched his Barbarossa, the Eastern Front looked like this:

Image

Seeing all that firepower, I thought it was finally safe to invade Libya. After all, he couldn't have troops everywhere, could he?

Image

So in the summer of 1942, while Max was (I thought) preoccupied in Russia, I launched an attack on Tobruk. Well, you all know how that turned out. A total debacle. The Brits were bruised and bloodied and sent packing, only rescued barely in time by the Americans and Free French hurried in from Morocco. At one point I was afraid he'd drive all the way to Iraq. And as you all know, he then entrenched at the Suez canal and it took me until late 1943. As a result, here it is late October 1944 and I'm only just reaching Tunis.

As with Morocco, there was a bit of a silver lining. Again, his great victory came at a cost of PP's lost to transport costs, a number of land and sea units damaged and destroyed, and a contingent tied down.


Do you see a pattern in all this? I do. I see that in each of these cases I was lulled by what seemed to be Max's full commitment elsewhere at the same time that I hurried myself due to a sense that I had to act, had to do something in the face of Max's massive success. While I fully admit that these are my own errors, I also credit Max. It's part of his genius that he keeps his opponents off-balance, in the dark, and reacting to him instead of following their own agendas. This is one of the reasons it's so darn hard to beat him.
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

Morris wrote:... in my AAR , Joe also did a quite farsighted decision to open the first USSR lab on Airforce & also focus on dogfight ! His USSR ftr achieved lvl 12 & top dogfight 9 in Mid 1944 . How about yours ?
Anyway , maybe you won't need this since Max's great Luftwaffe will run out of fuel .
Thanks for your comments, Morris. I will provide a fuller commentary on the air war in a future post. To answer your question briefly, by spring 1944 the Russians had Dogfight level 5 (out of 6). At about the same time Max had jet fighters, but the Russian tech was close enough to make them very able to take on the German fighters, especially since at this point Max was having real trouble keeping his fighters repaired and at decent Efficiency levels.

In an email Max told me that I never got him below 200 oil, even with bombing Ploesti and engaging every oil-burning unit I could find. Anyway, now the point is moot since the Luftwaffe is entirely destroyed.

As I said, I'll post in more detail about both the air war and the 'strategic warfare' over oil.
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Morris »

regarding to the three mistakes you critisize your self , I have few opinions to share with you :

1 mistake one , Any one met Max's 1939 bliz ( I met once) will have to accept the fact of very early France fall . You have to give up France & cocentrate to the defence of UK ,since the early France fall gives Axis a huge opportunity to invade UK . But on another side ,this bliz only work when the weather in 1939 is extrmly continue fair for at least 4 turns ! there are 3 player tried Max's bliz on me ,but they all met bad weather on the 3rd or 4th turn & then disaster for Axis ! So this is not your mistake ,it is only you suffer bad luck or Max always had good luck .

2 Battle in Morocco ,is worthy although you lose . If Max move these troops & pps & fuel back to Europe , he would have ensured his victory . You lose the compaign but win the possibility to win the game .

3 Topruk is not a mistake ,but you should have some more important target to attack . Topruk is not his heart . You should attack his fatal area like heart & head !

Anyway , you played great !
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

ALLIED GRAND STRATEGY: The USSR

My view was that Max had wounded the British so severely and had so effectively limited the Western Allies' options for offensive operations that I had to count on the Russians to win the war for me. The problem as I saw it in 1942 was that it would take a very long time before the Red Army was really ready to fight toe-to-toe with the Germans. I was convinced that Zechi's great error in the original Fortress Europa AAR was to try to do too much too soon. If you look at that AAR you'll see that the Russian losses were just horrendous and unsustainable. I planned to take a more patient approach (but all the time I worried, 'what if I'm too patient and I run out of time?').

In 1942 the Russians were ordered to just deal with the Barbarossa attacks by minimizing losses. Luckily I had the whole 'strategic reserve' of 8 gar in place to slow Max down, and he was never able to do any serious damage. Meanwhile the Red Army planned for a 1942-43 winter offensive to knock out Finland. I sent all the shock armies and tanks after Finland, along with almost the entire Soviet airforce. They made short work of the Finns, and it helped me out that after the Finnish surrender all those units were conveniently sent to the force pool to be placed for 1943 actions. After that, the plan was to get the Russian steamroller rolling. I would place infantry corps in front (I knew Max would just bomb my elite units, so I held them back) while the Soviet airforce duked it out with the Luftwaffe. My plan was to fight a WWI style battle of attrition, at least until the Russian tech made them strong enough for some real fighting.

I had also noted that Zechi chose to focus the Red Army on attacking Army Group South. The problem with that is that, while it may net you Romania and the Balkans earlier, it doesn't really get you any closer to Berlin. I opted to make a beeline for Berlin by putting my main force up against Army Group North.

In retrospect, I am pretty pleased with the Russian portion of my Grand Strategy. If I were to do it again, I'd follow a very similar plan, but, as Joe pointed out, I would have worked harder to concentrate my best offensive units, especially once the Luftwaffe was on the ropes; and I would have been a bit more aggressive. On that last point, I'll say Max made it very, very tough to be aggressive. The Russians faced very long odds on most attacks along the front. The Germans were entrenched behind rivers or in rough terrain/woods (sometimes both!). They had a big tech advantage. They had great supply. They had great leaders everywhere, so their effectiveness was sky high. Kudos to Max for constructing what we came to call The Wall of Steel.
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

ALLIED GRAND STRATEGY: The Western Allies

By the time the USA entered the war, I faced a tough choice point: Where do I strike my blow? My choices were these:
1. Norway
2. The British Isles (including possibly an invasion of Ireland?)
3. France
4. Iberia
5. Morocco
6. Libya

I dismissed option 1, Norway, immediately. Not only would it mean sticking my head into a noose (my fleet surrounded by Axis ports/airbases in the UK & Scandanavia) but even if I succeeded I didn't see how this would help my cause. Yes, it would be nice to open the route to the Baltic and link up with the Russians, but there's no way that Max would permit me to take Copenhagen, and going through Sweden seemed out of the question.

I also eliminated options 3 & 4. In both cases an invasion would mean sending my fleet in where the Axis land-based aircraft could tip the balance in favor of the Axis armada. I'm sure Max was drooling at the idea of his fleet sweeping down on my invasion forces while the Luftwaffe bombed them to oblivion.

Morocco had certain advantages, chief among them being that I already had a port there and that I'd be getting Free French reinforcements soon. On the down side, Morocco, like Norway, didn't really get me striking at the vitals of Germany. Yes, it would be nice to pick up those North African ports, and to link up with the 8th Army in Egypt; and, yes, doing all of this would help me get into position to attack Italy. But let's look at Zechi's example again. He chose to strike at Italy, but he faced an uphill battle. Not only were Max's fighters enjoying supply 5 while the Allies had only supply 3 (a huge factor in air war), but even in the unlikely event that I actually conquered Italy, I saw that I'd still be stuck far, far from Germany. I foresaw that Max, in that case, would simply make the Alps into an impregnable wall that I'd never get through in time.
The deciding factor, though, in declining a Mediterranean strategy was that Max held Gibraltar. Although I toyed with the idea of trying to re-take The Rock, I realized soon that Max could make it almost impossible. So, that meant shipping my navy the long way around Africa... and leaving myself open to a second Operation Amerika!? No thanks!
So, Operation Torch was destined to be a sideshow.

Libya? Ditto. Everything I just said about Torch I could say about an invasion from the other side. Yes, I did land troops and attack in both places, but neither were intended to be my major thrust. Their jobs, which they accomplished to some degree, was to wear down and tie up Axis forces while the main event happened elsewhere.

And the winner is... England. I expected Max to make the liberation of Great Britain to be very difficult indeed, but the advantages made it a very attractive option:

a. Ports. I still held Belfast and Scapa Flow, so my fleet would have vital ports for repairs and upgrades.

b. Supply. The Scapa Flow port provides '3' supply to adjacent hexes in northern Scotland, so I wouldn't be left in supply '1' until I took a city.

c. Air bases. This was the biggest factor of all. My long-range bombers would be in striking distance from the bases in Iceland and Greenland, and there were numerous hexes in Northern Ireland, and two more with Scapa & its airbase. Better yet, I could stage my aircraft there from northern Canada, without risking putting my precious planes on transports.

d. Supply again. The way Max plays, he makes it very unpleasant to fight--especially dogfighting--because he manages it so that his units get 4 & 5 supply while yours get 3 or less. I wanted to eliminate that advantage, and the best way to do it was by retaking London.

e. Victory conditions. England was directly on the path toward Paris, Hamburg, and Berlin. If I could liberate the UK, I'd again have a base from which to launch my final offensive where it really would affect the game's outcome. (And in case I had to give up any hope of actually winning this game, at least by taking London I could prevent the humiliation of an Ultimate Axis Victory.)

f. Restoring British power. The loss of England meant a great loss of manpower, PP, rail capacity, etc. for the Western Allies. Especially late in the war, it would also be very important to be able to place my new builds right on the front, instead of having to ship them all the way from Canada.

It would take me quite a while to get everything in order to pull off the invasion of Britain. The main delaying point was the time it took me to get my aircraft--especially fighters!--into position in Ireland and Scapa so that I would have solid air cover for my fleet. In the mean time, I would try my best to keep Max entertained with the sideshows in Morocco and Egypt. And very entertaining they both turned out to be--too much so for my comfort!
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

ALLIED GRAND STRATEGY: Oil and Airpower

One of Max's great achievements in this game was the assembly of maybe the most massive Axis war machine ever seen in a PBEM game. I was frankly shocked that he was able to fight so effectively, with so many powerful units, on four different fronts at the same time. (For example he half-throttled my initial invasion of England because he rushed in way more resources than I thought he could possibly muster, while at the same time dominating in Egypt, Morocco, and the East.)

But his force had an Achilles heel: Oil. His four (!) CV's and countless other ships and subs; his massive panzer and mechanized force; his super-sized, high-tech airforces all had to manage with the output of the German synth plants plus a couple of wells in the Balkans. To make matters worse, I knew that he'd had to expend large amounts of oil early in the game to make all those conquests, and, of course, in his impressive Barbarossa in 1942. This, I felt, was a weakness that ought to be exploited.

One of the reasons that I was so willing to take on the Axis with the technically backward Soviet airforces in 1943 was that I knew that every dogfight and counter-air attack would push his oil gauge ever lower. I set my sights, too, on retaking Odessa ASAP so I could get some fighters in range of the Ploesti oilfields.

Even earlier, in 1942, I was glad to engage my carrier force against Max's ground-based air in Morocco--especially because there he didn't have an advantage in supply level.

Where I really hoped to drain his oil reserves big-time was in Britain. With 5 CV's and (eventually) four fighters, plus numerous strats and tacs, it was my hope to gain the upper hand fairly early--both to soak off his oil reserves and to gain air supremacy for my invasion forces. Here, I thought, I'd have an edge in numbers and parity in quality. Or so I thought.

Although things looked okay at first (at the time of my first landings, Max didn't have very large forces in the UK), I was amazed and dismayed to see what was in store for me. Max, through luck or good management, had better air tech than the British, supply 5, and--to my astonishment--large numbers of fighters. Where did they come from? I knew that Max had a huge force of German and other Axis fighters in the East, because I was taking them on with the Russians. I thought that at best he'd manage to get 3-4 German fighters into Britain. Wrong again. I have to assume that he exceeded his fighter limits (accepting higher purchase costs and higher oil consumption), or else I'm just mathematically challenged. Soon I found that I was fighting to just maintain basic air cover and keep up with repairs. Ouch!

Luckily for me, this turned out to be a temporary setback, though it was very alarming at the time (especially because he was bombing my fleet in the Irish Sea, and two ports weren't nearly enough to keep up with the repairs). From Max's emails, I gathered that it wasn't really the oil drain, directly, that made the difference but rather the PP cost. Even taking heavier losses in most dogfights, I had the economies of Britain, the US, and the USSR to absorb the costs of repairing all those fighters. Max, even with his economy-on-steroids, eventually wasn't able to keep up. Combine that with the Brits eventually catching up in air technology, and the tide turned in the Battle for Britain.
Diplomaticus
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

THE TIDE TURNS: Winter 1943-44.

After having dominated the whole game long, and seemingly having brushed off my various attempts to get an Allied offensive going anywhere at all, the situation for the Axis rapidly deteriorated. Max himself commented on this in an email to me: One minute he was holding firm at Suez, solid as a rock on the Russian front, and battering the Allies in Scotland and Ireland... and the next, the Axis was crumbling everywhere. This all took place in the winter of 1943-44. But how?

1. Tide turns in Britain. The setting in of bad weather in fall 1943 actually came as a relief, as it gave my airplanes a much-needed chance to upgrade and repair. Those upgrades would be critical in the coming turns. At the same time I took the opportunity of the bad weather to rotate more than half of my fleet back to bases in North America, also to repair and upgrade. Meanwhile, the dogged Americans under Patton slowly ground southward, due to rough ground not much slower than they'd have done in the summer. By the time spring brought clear weather again, I had a newly repaired and significantly upgraded fleet coming in with reinforcements for the ground war. This time the air war went completely differently. It was Max who was keeping his fighters on sentry mode, and I actually managed to destroy a couple of them on the ground, as he apparently was having trouble affording repairs.

2. Tide turns in Egypt. If you followed the AAR, I'm sure you noticed the long, long stalemate at the Suez line. I kept picking at his position, and he kept rotating fresh units into place. Vexing. But finally I was able to seize Suez (by killing a panzer, no less), and that thin edge of the wedge forced the rapid collapse of his whole position in Egypt. Within surprisingly few turns the Desert Fox was fleeing and the victorious Brits and Americans were charging into Libya.

3. Tide turns in the East. The winter of 43-44 went very well for the Red Army. Max grounded his aircraft, so I was able to run amok with nearly total air supremacy. The Soviet air corps was steadily improving anyway, and the winter edge made them formidable. Helped out by all the tacs, Red Army ground forces forced breakthroughs that, due to the bad weather, Max couldn't eliminate, and so he withdrew, and withdrew again. In fact, his repeated withdrawals actually caused some problems for me, as I was unable to take full advantage of the winter weather while my troops lumbered forward (unable, too, to either repair or upgrade themselves). By pushing forward into Poland, I was able to bomb many of Max's fighter airbases, weakening him further.
The Russians suffered a setback in April due to my own oversight. I failed to notice that there would be clear weather in the Central zone but a probability of mud in the east. Talk about your tables turned! Now Max's planes had the weather edge and mine were at half-values. (This reversal cost a lot of PP's and a turn or two of initiative--which in the big picture might cost me the game.)
By May, however, the situation reversed itself again. Now the Soviets had fighters almost as good as the Germans, and with no problems at all with manpower or oil. Soon the dogfights were evening out, then coming out in my favor. By June the Russians were starting to destroy aircraft on the ground, and Max's line of defense was retreating to the mountains, leaving the minor allies to their fates.

By the end of the summer of 1944, there were virtually no Axis aircraft left anywhere on the map. This marked a great victory, but as I've said elsewhere, it came at a price. I had to concentrate so many resources on my air forces that the Allied ground attack was blunted--technologically and numerically behind. I saw this especially with the relatively thin ranks of the American land army and the sparse Russian tank presence. We'll have to see how the game plays out, but in these last turns I find myself wishing I had fewer fighter planes and more tanks & mechs.
Diplomaticus
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Diplomaticus »

A brief note.

I just checked the Morris vs. Joe Rock AAR, and it's amazing how these two AAR's have been running in parallel. Morris just posted the February 21 1945 turn--and that's exactly where Max and I are. The tactical situation is pretty similar too.

I have to admit it--I lucked out on the weather. Both October turns in 1944 were clear in Central Europe (no great surprise, since that's 75% chance), and November was clear too (only 25%), and then we headed straight into winter. That meant 4 very productive turns, at least for the Red Army, and the only fly in the ointment was that a lot of Russian aircraft are in the Eastern zone, so they got some mud in the fall.

Max got helped out a bit by a couple of mud turns in the middle of winter (January & February 1st 1945), but then in our latest turn we got clear again (25% chance)! That clear turn created a disaster for Max.

Max has been a great sport about this, but I would have wished for a more average set of weather rolls to make it truly a fair fight. Maybe we'll roll mud in March?
Morris
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by Morris »

Diplomaticus wrote:A brief note.

I just checked the Morris vs. Joe Rock AAR, and it's amazing how these two AAR's have been running in parallel. Morris just posted the February 21 1945 turn--and that's exactly where Max and I are. The tactical situation is pretty similar too.

I have to admit it--I lucked out on the weather. Both October turns in 1944 were clear in Central Europe (no great surprise, since that's 75% chance), and November was clear too (only 25%), and then we headed straight into winter. That meant 4 very productive turns, at least for the Red Army, and the only fly in the ointment was that a lot of Russian aircraft are in the Eastern zone, so they got some mud in the fall.

Max got helped out a bit by a couple of mud turns in the middle of winter (January & February 1st 1945), but then in our latest turn we got clear again (25% chance)! That clear turn created a disaster for Max.

Max has been a great sport about this, but I would have wished for a more average set of weather rolls to make it truly a fair fight. Maybe we'll roll mud in March?
yes , but Joe 's situation is better than yours . Whatever the weather will be ,Joe will win with no doubt . But for you ,time is limited & you only have 50% chance for a minor victory . So just attack despiting of the coming weather ( you should have at least 2 fair turn before draw in April ). Hope you will make it ! :)
zechi
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
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Re: Debriefing: Diplo v Max in Fortress Europa II

Post by zechi »

Impressive play on part of JoeRock. I would never have thought that he would win it until a few turns ago.

Its difficult to say what Morris did wrong, but I think he gave to much ground to quickly.
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