Combat , support and 2nd combat

[paulbg]

Interesring second full game. As always interesting situations occur.

I charged an artillery battery, most likely getting in the flank.

To do this a moved across the front of another artillery battery. We could not find any rules that allows the battery I crossed to do anything, if I contact the flank there is no shooting so not even support dice.

My opponent chose to intercept charge with some cavalry behind the target battery - all at strange angles but I was directly in front of the cavalry.

I win the combat, he retires (9mu) I pursue (8mu). Within the first 4mu I contact the original artillery. It cannot react and we have a 2nd combat.he gets 6 dice (4 + 2 for support from the other battery) and I get 4 (6 - 2 for disorder) , + poa for me and - poa for him. I win and he is destroyed.

Do I now pursue the rest of my original pursuit or do I roll a new one ?

did we do everything right ?

[viperofmilan]

I do not believe that enemy cavalry could interpenetrate any unit, even friendly artillery in the same command. while intercepting.

Kevin

[panda2]

I'm not sure why the second artillery unit could not fire (if there was no interception). I can only assume that the assaulting unit did not pass within 2MU of its front. The same procedure is used for fire in the assault phase as in the firing phase (p.48), except that it is only allowed at assaulting units and at close range (calculated as if the assault had been completed)(p.32). There is no rule that says only units being assaulted can fire (although there are restrictions on them if they have made a reaction move(p.48)). If the second artillery unit was in position to supporting dice in combat it seems very likely that it was able to shoot in the assault phase and in deed would actually have to do so since short range fire is compulsory (p.49).

Andy D

[SirGarnet]

Terry said in thread 32891 that all who can fire do.

[paulbg]

I am not sure how the second (non target) artillery unit would fire.

The target does not fire - so it cannot get support (+2 dice).
As there is no fire (in the assault phase) the cavalry move to contact

So we move to the general fire phase.

The rules (pg 48) specifically state that the cavalry is NOT a valid target. [ It was a small unit ]



Agree on the intercept - pg 32 says that you cannot intercept through a friendly unit . If the Artillery retires and the cavalry behind is in range does it become the target - and can now counter charge

or

Does the attacking cav. move to the point of contact and then pursue ? Charging into the rear cav. which now cannot counter charge ( less than 1/2 pursuit move) ?
Does the non counter charging can now suffer a combat penalty ?

[SirGarnet]

I am not sure how the second (non target) artillery unit would fire.

The target does not fire - so it cannot get support (+2 dice).
As there is no fire (in the assault phase) the cavalry move to contact

Defensive Fire occurs in the assault phase. If the Cavalry assault path is in close range firing arc ahead then based on Terry's confirmation in the other thread I believe Panda is correct.

So we move to the general fire phase.

The rules (pg 48) specifically state that the cavalry is NOT a valid target. [ It was a small unit ]

Agreed since at that point it is in pre-combat contact.

Agree on the intercept - pg 32 says that you cannot intercept through a friendly unit . If the Artillery retires and the cavalry behind is in range does it become the target - and can now counter charge
or
Does the attacking cav. move to the point of contact and then pursue ? Charging into the rear cav. which now cannot counter charge ( less than 1/2 pursuit move) ?
Does the non counter charging can now suffer a combat penalty ?

Pursuit is after combat contact. If the target moved out of range then Cavalry may wheel toward the next nearest target within 2 MU of the guns or their retirement (p31). Sounds like that is the assaulting cavalrym which by default counter-charge.

[paulbg]

what or where is 32891 ? How do I find it ?


If units other than those being assaulted fire in the assault phase (as part of charge reaction) then this [to me] is a news and changes many things ....... should they not also then have to take a reaction test ! So if artillery and wish to fire - they may abandon the guns, why should they not think that the charge was at them if its that close.

Or are we really saying that the "Close to Assault" should really be after the fire phase ??? Right now we have some fire in the assault phase and some in the fire phase.

[SirGarnet]

1. Go to the bar on top of the screen you are reading now and replace the 5 digit thread number with that number and hit enter (or whatever you use to have the browser go to the entered URL).

2. Think of it as a lone regiment (perhaps a *cough* Light Brigade) unwisely charging into a tornado of crossfire, rather than more prudently assaulting as part of a broader coordinate attack in which case the other defenders will be busy with their own targets (and most likely disordered or wavering from firepower before the cavalry are sent in to finish them).

BTW, I didn't think it worked this way either from the first reading of the rules, but it does make a lot of sense in a firepower-dominant battle environment, and considering the long assault range reach of cavalry. If they can stay more than 200 yards away from other enemy units on their way in, they don't get any of that additional fire.

[paulbg]

Mike

Your suggestion

Move assaulters to 2 MU (sometimes less); Resolve Defensive Fire against each assaulter by defender, suppports, and units having the assault path to contact within their firing arc (max 1 DF per firer). If CMT failed/not taken, then Cav+Arty Att may and Inf must remain at 2 MU (p32).

Seems to fit the discussion and Terry's comment, but it's not obvious from the actual rules.

While "testing" new rule sets I explore boundaries and try to push it and just try things.

At present anyone trying the rules and not on the forum will really struggle and really end up playing a different game.

[SirGarnet]

My objective is to find out and facilitate how the game is intended to be played, after errata and clarifications of things that can be misconstrued. It can be enjoyably played with other interpretations. People who find difficulty will download errata and clarifications and play aids.

[AlanCutner]

by MikeK » 26 May 2012 05:40
People who find difficulty will download errata and clarifications and play aids.

I don't think thats necessarily true for many people, and misses the point. Many people are not on these forums. And in any case it should be possible to pick up a set of rules, read them and be able to play the game without recourse to the authors. I wonder how many people will have picked up these rules with great hope, and then packed them away again. It would be a great shame because somewhere in there theres a good set of rules.

And sorry if my last few posts come across very negatively. I'll repeat what I've said several times - I like the rule concepts, enjoy the game and appreciate the input from the authors. I'm simply frustrated at the poor production quality, proof reading and general layout of the rules.

[paulbg]

Alan

I would agree, many people in the club(s) I am involved with do just what you say. I am sure that I have already seen a copy on eBay