Grand Campaign '43 Aftermath

[Kerensky]

When I started DLC 1943 East, I had a LOT more infantry and StuG anti-tank units. What happened to them? Well DLC 1943 East happened to them, they got decimated. lol

How I started DLC 1943 East, this is my TOTAL losses for all previous DLC, so DLC 39, 40, 41, and 42


How I ended DLC 1943 East


In other words, from just playing DLC 1943 East, I lost...
39 Infantry units
13 tank units
30 recon units (compared to 24 total lost from the past 4 DLC combined)
35 anti-tank units
4 artillery units
19 air defense units
3 fighter units (All FW 190s )
5 tactical bombers (All Stukas)
1 level bomber

At the end of DLC 1943 East (Manstein Difficulty), my Core is:

Infantry:
HW 43
HW 43

Tank:
SE Panzer IVH
SE Panzer IVH
SE Panther
SE Panther
SE Panther
SE Panther
KV-85(r)
KV-85(r)

Anti-tank:
Stug IIIG
Elephant
Elephant

Recon:
Puma
Puma

Artillery:
SU-122(r)
SU-122(r)
SU-122(r)
150mm
150mm
170mm
170mm
Wurfrahmen
Wurfrahmen
Wurfrahmen
Wurfrahmen

Air Defense
88mm

Fighter:
Me109
Me109
Me109
FW190
FW190
FW190
FW190
FW190

Bomber:
Stuka G
Stuka G
Stuka G
Stuka G
Stuka G
HE-177
HE-177



I got a decisive victory in every scenario except Orel and Kiev43. Both of those I had to settle for marginal victories.

As a consolation prize, I finally got the highest award for my best Stuka:




This DLC, on this difficulty setting, is not for the faint of heart. Gotta say though, it's always enjoyable to have hard fought battles instead of just steamrolling the AI map after map. Even if I did lose ALL of my captured KV tanks and Panzer IVs and Infantry and StuGs..... lol

[Anthedon]

Looking at your casualties I dread what is still to come for my core force. I'm currently playing Oboyan and have just lost my precious SE Grenadiers who where with me since '39 along with other long-serving units as well (heartbreaking experience).

But I love the change in difficulty compared to the previous campaigns as well as the new levels and objectives.

Also, that's a lot of Wurfrahmens, mine have a nasty habit of attracting enemy aircraft which necessitates near-constant aerial cover.

[huertgenwald]

Is infantry obsolete in DLC 43, Kerensky ?

You only got 2 left ?

[deducter]

Due to the way Manstein difficulty works, infantry is at a particular disadvantage. There are no good way to suppress tanks, except using the Ju 87G. Hence, even attacking tanks with infantry in close terrain will suffer high casualties, due to the inflated SA value of late war experienced tanks and the relative vulnerability of infantry.

Infantry is still great on the other difficulties, because often one attack in close terrain is enough to suppress or nearly completely suppress armored strength, especially with high INI infantry like the HW infantry.

[huertgenwald]

Thx.

[Kerensky]

I still use infantry all the time, even in 1943 and even in Manstein. They just don't survive very long though. Just like my poor recon cars.
I only have two of those as well, but I went through 30 of them before I finished the campaign.

1 brand new 10 strength StuG IIIG can absorb 2-4 attacks by 16 strength tanks before it dies. That's 32-64 dice rolls that aren't being rolled against my more valuable and expensive units such as my veteran artillery.

Buy, die, buy, die, buy, die. Infantry, anti-tank, and recon cars are the units I used to blunt the deadly AI counter attacks that really show up in force in DLC 1943. They're cheap and other than just expendable, they are extremely effective when used properly. And then after the AI butchers my poor vanguards, the Stukas and Panthers swoop in and take vengeance in the order of some 300+ AI tank units destroyed! (637 jumped to up 961)

[huertgenwald]

Thx, again.

Is this "working as intended" ?

I suppose even on Manstein diff infantry should be more than cannonfodder.

Not that i'm worried too much, since i was in the Luftwaffe in my younger days ('82-'83).

[Kerensky]

Manstein is extra special, this statement is fairly accurate for other difficulties where the AI doesn't get the 50% strength advantage.

Due to the way Manstein difficulty works, infantry is at a particular disadvantage. There are no good way to suppress tanks, except using the Ju 87G. Hence, even attacking tanks with infantry in close terrain will suffer high casualties, due to the inflated SA value of late war experienced tanks and the relative vulnerability of infantry.

Infantry is still great on the other difficulties, because often one attack in close terrain is enough to suppress or nearly completely suppress armored strength, especially with high INI infantry like the HW infantry.

[kokkorhekkus]

good day Kerensky

I hesitate for the level of difficulty for my second long campaign to come

actually I play only on FM level on my first and it's easy , even in 1943 (I will play Kiev this evening)

Not many losses in '43, 1 he177, 1 hummel , 1 reco (i play without recos for most of time because of 3 spotting heros !) , 1 or two INFs if my memory is good. But i was lucky 3 or 4 times with 3/4 units ALMOST destroyed (1 step remaining)
You have huge losses (due to manstein difficulty level)

SO :
"Manstein level" but with many PPs like you seems to have
OR
"Rommel level" with 50% of PPs

what is the good choice for a real tough and funny long campaign 39-45 ?

[hmshood]

Here is my two cents....avoid Orel.....(yeah I know it's not possible.....)....

hmshood

[hmshood]

I SURVIVED!!....barely...losses to core units although again for this scenario not too bad...but they are grinding away at the experienced dudes....

hmshood

[LandMarine47]

Kiev decimated my core..... My final Poznan unit was killed somewhere in the city

[jkombae]

GC43 decimated my prestige and infantary...

When I started with GC43 I acted like in the GCs before without moving the focus from infantary to tanks and without increasing AA units. Additionally it was a big mistake to go for a DV that is not impossible but will cause a lot of damage and looses in your core units. I started with 95K prestige and after Kev'43 it was about 59K. Main reasons: Tank upgrades, replacement of air units and in-game replacements.

Infantary units are more or less useless against the incredible high number of tanks. The most efficient way to defend and maybe assault the Russians is to use terrain to your advantage (rivers, forest, swamps) whereever you can.
But more annoying are the nasty T-90 AAs that suddently occur and attack my fighters that back up tanks/artillery. I bought a few new mobile AAs and coverted the 8,8 to a mobile ones - it works quite well, even with green units.

With 100% air defense by ground units, using any terrain advantage to the extremes and going for MV only, most scenarios are quite easy to win. You do not get attacked by russian air force often and tanks can be eleminated like shooting clay pigeon when they are assaulting over rivers & bridges. Hold you devensive line behind rivers as long as possible and do not enter VH beyond rivers unless it is necessary for a MV.

...but to be honest...I do not play on Manstein difficulty level.

[captainjack]

An interesting approach to rely entirely on mobile AA units, but it sounds effective. I am still surprised how well the fast single 20mm AA is defensively. Not so hot on attack, but it gains experience pretty fast from defensive work and it's always somewhere useful so gets many small amounts of experience which add up. I'd still want one or two fighters to escort Rudel and maybe a strat bomber but I might try the mobile AA approach next time round.

Infantry has to be used much more carefully in 43, but can still be effective. They are very good for attacking other units in close terrain but defensively artillery support is absolutely essential in 43 rather than just sensible as before. Unsuppressed 10 or 11 strength infantry at 3 or 4* with initiative and attack heroes can often defend well against a T34/76 in open terrain, but infantry vs infantry combat with experienced infantry seems to have extremely high casualty counts, so a second attack can wipe out even an experienced unit with defence heroes.

I hate SPAAGT90, so much so that I did a bit of research and decided that if a quad mount of 0.5" machine guns on an M3 halftrack has air attack 11, then a double mount of 12.7 should not also be attacking at 11. My modded equipment file now allocates AA of 9 to the SPAAG. They still take points off my aircraft and annoy me a lot, but not quite as much as they used to. I really should look up some icons for truck mounted soviet AA and keep only the name (I'm not up to modding actual scenarios yet - just the odd equipment tweak and addition). For info I don't mind using experimental and limited production units (If I ever make it to late 44 I can try out my PaK 44 128mm AT units) but I have had campaigns where I destroyed more SPAAG units than the total number ever made as prototypes, and there's something indefinable about them that really annoys me.

[jkombae]

Nasty SPAAGT90, indeed! With enough self propelled AAs on the ground you have enough fighters "free" to attack Russian airforce early and ...of course to secure your bombers efficiantly. I just finished GC43 (must be the 4th time and start GC44 yesterday. For Korsun pocket (1st scenario in GC44) it also works fine. The deployment (incl. 6 SE unit overhead) looks like this:

6x Grenadier
2x 234/8-rad Recon
10x TigerI, 2x PantherD
2x Elefant
2x sIG38, 1x Su-122, 1x Nebelwerfer
6x SdKfz 7/2
5x Fw190A
2x Me410A (one recon)
2x He 177A

It looks like 6 AAs are a wast of deployment slots but it enebles your airforce to directly eliminate Russian AAs and to "prepare" the Russian tanks before they get destroyed by the yours. Infantary is still great to establish a defensive line within forests or cities - as the AI usually tries to attack with tanks first.

[captainjack]

In the spirit of After Action Reports - I still have trouble with Prokhorovka! I looked at ThorHa's comments, thought about my previous failures or expensive MVs and at least didn't lose any units this time (there were a few at 3strength or less hiding in dense terrain).

Most recently I had started on Kursk South with my brilliant new strategy and got a very severe slapping at Oboyan. Luckily I had saved Orel just before I committed to South or North and tried North. I'm not sure it's true to say it was easier, but the slower pace seemed to suit me much better and I got DV all the way until Prokhorovka (where I deliberately aimed for MV). I lost a couple of recons but these were just used to scout for mines so I wasn't too bothered by that, and just brought in reserve combat units to fill the vacancy.

The Panther Wotan line (Dniprpetrovsk?) didn't seem too bad - I got a DV on turn 8, which was mildly annoying as I had originally planned to capture a few extra cities and earn the per turn prestige. Kremenchug wasn't too difficult. It helped I had a 4* HE177 and a 5*Do217 to dispose of the seaborne troops while my SE force which was guarding the shores got some easy experience for the new Panther by shooting up boats. This allowed the SE force to get stuck into the combat around Kremenchug itself in about turn 10 just when they were most needed. There were one or two occasions where I had a bit of a scare when about half of my anti-artillery raiding force ran out of ammo almost all at once. Luckily I had just broken the counter attack up enough to rotate out troops and drive back enough enemy units to allow resupply.

So far 43 seems to include a mix of constant grind to remove well entrenched positions and isolated heavily entrenched units to free up attack lines (Kursk) with scenarios that require rapid shifts between attack and defence (eg Kremenchug).

One thing I did learn from Kursk was to upgrade lighter artillery trucks to half tracks or Hummels. In the second Kursk North scenario I ended up with most of my truck mounted artillery too far behind to clear out the final victory hex. I had to do some hard thinking so that I could arrange about six attacks and moves in the right sequence to allow my out-of-ammo SU122 to switch to AT mode and drive in through the gap I had created as the final move to get DV.

[hmshood]

Well...here I am again...Orel...1943....playing at higher level....Prestige level "hoovers" around 3500....was last here about a year ago (2014)....way way more difficult now...Three air aces....but not nuff Prestige to get them all the way up to 13-14 level....have 3 Tigers....same issue..just too bloody costly to go to 13-14 level....ME410's popular..do good job....one of the most fun aspects of this game to the initial deployment concerns...who goes where..what to upgrade..costs..who could I lose..who needs more experience....etc