Prospective Player Questions

[Majonga]

Hello all,

I have been lurking around the Field of Glory Forums since before FOG: Napoleonic was announced and I have been toying with the idea of buying it since it was announced. I'm not entirely new to tabletop games, but I am the closest thing. Before anyone jumps down my throat I'll admit that I have played Warhammer 40,000 for quite a few years, but please don't judge me solely on that (I get the feeling that some hardliners aren't too receptive to 40k players). I have always been avidly interested in the Napleonic era and the idea of a Napoleonic tabletop game is extremely appealing. However when I began to look I quickly became confused by the sheer amount of rule-sets on offer. When I heard that Osprey were working with Slitherine to make a Napoleonic tabletop game I thought I might have found a rule-set worth trying.

I don't have any metal sets from the usual manufacturers, but I do have a large collection of plastic 1:72 Napoleonic figures produced by Italeri and Airfix (again hardliners who use metal please don't judge me) and I was thinking that FOG might be a good way to find a use for them. I don't mean to give a life story or anything here, but I am very new to this style of tabletop games and the community here seemed inviting enough that I thought I might see if some of my bigger questions can be answered. Although I know that generally any basing questions are answered with "whatever suits you personally", but as I said, I am pretty much completely new to this style of tabletop game.

1. My first question is obviously, could I use the plastic 1:72 figures for my bases?

2. How do most players base their figures? Are there pre-made bases to buy like in GW or can I make my own? What materials would one suggest I use to base my figures? I had thought perhaps using wood, would Balsa Wood do or is it too fragile?

3. For those who have played FOG, is the game focused more towards Strategy? (I.E. what units you bring to battle and where you place them when you deploy etc.) or is it more towards Tactics? (what formations you use where and when etc.)

4. A slightly odd question, but is there anything concrete in the rules for the presence of figures bearing Colours, Bugles, Drums etc. within units? I have a multitude of such figures and I am not sure how they would fit into units which are Brigades rather than single Battalions.

5. On a similar vein to question 4, how is limbered artillery represented in the game. I have limbers from some of my guns but not all. Is a special limber base needed or are artillery units represented solely by the guns themselves.

6. Finally, most broadly, for those who have played Field of Glory: Napoleonic and Warhammer 40,000: What are the biggest differences between the two games that I should probably know about? Apart from the scale which I am aware is significantly larger in FOG.

Alot of these questions of course could be solved by reading the rulebook, particularly Appendix 6, but it has been impossible for me to get my hands on a printed copy and I don't want to take the plunge and buy the game if it turns out not to be what I wanted. Hopefully you guys can answer some of these questions. Thank you very much in advance.

Maj

[Johndeterreneuve]

I am new to FoG-N, so I really can not answer some of your questions, but I will take a stab at some of the obvious ones. I have been at Napoleonic wargaming for about 5 years, so my general experience is limited. But I have tried multiple rulesets so I have some ideas. You can look at my progress through Napoleonic Wargaming on my blog. http://fuentesdeonoro.blogspot.com/ I am presently working through FoG-N on the blog.

So on to your questions, Good luck with it.

1. My first question is obviously, could I use the plastic 1:72 figures for my bases?
Simply yes

2. How do most players base their figures? Are there pre-made bases to buy like in GW or can I make my own? What materials would one suggest I use to base my figures? I had thought perhaps using wood, would Balsa Wood do or is it too fragile?
GW bases are quite expensive, I would use wood, 1.5 or 3mm plywood or MDF. Buy them precut...where depends on where you live.

3. For those who have played FOG, is the game focused more towards Strategy? (I.E. what units you bring to battle and where you place them when you deploy etc.) or is it more towards Tactics? (what formations you use where and when etc.)
I will let someone more familiar with the game answer this one.

4. A slightly odd question, but is there anything concrete in the rules for the presence of figures bearing Colours, Bugles, Drums etc. within units? I have a multitude of such figures and I am not sure how they would fit into units which are Brigades rather than single Battalions.
You got to have flags etc, I just would not worry about that. I would recommend that you very carefully think about how you base your figures. You want to do it so you can use multiple rulesets, not just one. FoG-N is a grand tactical game, you may want to play a tactical game someday. Lot of discussion about this on my most recent blog post http://fuentesdeonoro.blogspot.com/2012 ... art-1.html

5. On a similar vein to question 4, how is limbered artillery represented in the game. I have limbers from some of my guns but not all. Is a special limber base needed or are artillery units represented solely by the guns themselves.
The rules recommend limbers, but they do suggest a way around not having them, I just would not worry about that now.

6. Finally, most broadly, for those who have played Field of Glory: Napoleonic and Warhammer 40,000: What are the biggest differences between the two games that I should probably know about? Apart from the scale which I am aware is significantly larger in FOG.
I will also leave that one.

[mrbootsthecat]

A couple of answers.
1. Your plastics will be fine. People are using all sorts of figures in all sorts of scales, so dont worry. Its base size that is important. 1/72 figures are between the two major scales of 15mm or 28mm, although probably closer to modern 15mm. So go with that base size and adjust number of figures if required.
2. Best stuff for basing is MDF. Companies make these, pre cut and accurately cut. If you put "bases" into ebay, several manufacturers turn up.
3 Not played enough to give you an answer
4- Assuming you have your units in 24s or 32s, just use them. Its more of a problem if you have smaller units, as you get two commands- but bear in mind these units are regiments/brigades so would have had a couple of colours at least.
5.
Havent got the book to hand, but you can either use limbers or just turn the gun round.
6 Not played much FOG N yet but.... 40K is much more flexible, in units going all over the place. FOGN you have to think more about flanks and rear. Not so many dice in Fog. The armies have differences, but not as significant as say Eldar or Necrons.
Have a go at the free FOG N "lite" starter game and see if you like it

[hazelbark]

I3. For those who have played FOG, is the game focused more towards Strategy? (I.E. what units you bring to battle and where you place them when you deploy etc.) or is it more towards Tactics? (what formations you use where and when etc.)
I will let someone more familiar with the game answer this one.

Compared to warhammer, FOG is more strategic. I view Warhammer as looking more like a large skirmish rather than a small battle.
FOG and particulary FOGN look more like a battle. I am a pretty competitive player, who learns rule details. What I like about FOG in general is that making the right strategic choices is a strong substitute for knowing the rules details. Like any game it takes 3 or so games to get the timing and mechanic straight.

4. A slightly odd question, but is there anything concrete in the rules for the presence of figures bearing Colours, Bugles, Drums etc. within units? I have a multitude of such figures and I am not sure how they would fit into units which are Brigades rather than single Battalions.

Lots of flexiblity here and if it looks good people wll be happy.

5. On a similar vein to question 4, how is limbered artillery represented in the game. I have limbers from some of my guns but not all. Is a special limber base needed or are artillery units represented solely by the guns themselves.
The rules recommend limbers, but they do suggest a way around not having them, I just would not worry about that now.

Actually they do and they have a simple process for needing limbers when you don't have. Also generally speaking you need only 2 not more andd they aren't needed after about 2 turns.

6. Finally, most broadly, for those who have played Field of Glory: Napoleonic and Warhammer 40,000: What are the biggest differences between the two games that I should probably know about? Apart from the scale which I am aware is significantly larger in FOG.

Well I would say they rules authors approach things a bit differently. The Warhammer approach is pretty figures and a good time. I don't mean that critically but warhammer tends to be a bit more Hollywood. FOG is approaching it more history and game first. To use the same analogy a documentary approach. So WH is more about the individual unit and figure and FOG is more about the army. Both have their place but the authors approach things differently.

[deadtorius]

Just so you feel better my current collection of Napoleonics is all 1/72 scale plastics. I did them up years ago for the WRG system and they are still being used on those bases. I have always played 25/28mm so I based mine up on the 60mm frontage with 4 figs per base, or 3 cav. In the WRG rules bases were only 20mm deep and I use 4 bases per unit, so smaller units than the 8 fig units you see online or in the rules. That is because I am not going to attempt to rebase them, I have enough to do a corps per side and I am getting older and I am not really interested in adding to the collection. Unless you intend to go into competitions as the rules say base depth is not really relevant.

If you want to try a cheap basing alternative, but it might cause some warping is to try using picture matting,which you can get at the large craft stores like Michaels. They are usually big enough to fit inside a picture frame,come in various colours which is kind of irrlevant and can easily be cut with an x-acto knife. They tend to warp up when you flock the bases but they can also be bent back again with no real problems.
I would recommend that you rub the bottom of your figs with some rough sand paper, 100 or 120 should do to help them adhere to the bases. Hot glue worked well or white glue will also hold them down.
My own collection is Italeri and Hat figures, I think the Italeri were probably better sculpted but Hat has fairly large range of figs and you can also buy limbers from them. For our game we just dropped an unused cavalry figure in behind the gun bases and had both bases being "pulled" by that figure to represent limbered. Once unlimbered just remove the cav.

I would say that FOGN is more about Strategy perhaps. You don't really do much in the way of formations in these rules, those decisions being left up to your unseen commanders, but getting the troops to the right place when you need them seems to be imprortant.

Give the trial rules a run and see what you think, and don't be so self conscious about the plastics, I have a few other 1/72 scale armies in other periods too.

[Trailape]

Hi Majonga
Welcome to the world of Historical gaming and in particular, Napoleonic gaming.
1: YES! Actually, in 28mm scale 'Plastic Miniatures' are having a resurgance thanks to companies like PERRY and VICTIX. I highly recommend them. Add in some Metals and you can have a really beautiful yet inexpensive army in 28mm. HUZZAH!
2: GW bases (like everything GW) are quite expensive and as a rule inappropriate for most historical game systems IMHO. Get your hands on 3mm plywood or MDF. I would recommend LITKO bases but there are many to chose from. Google is your friend
3: It's a Tactical / Grand tactical game. You are manouvering Brigades or demi-brigades, (a collection of Battalions that may or may not be from the same Regiment). Individuals are of no consequence in this game. Crule but fair
4: I would place a Flag or maybe 2 (depending on the nation) on one of your 4 to 6 bases, together with an Officer and musician and also 4 or 5 soldiers and have the other bases populated by soldiers with the occassional Officer thrown in. Maybe a bugler on the base that has 'light' company soldiers. To give a complete answer here would require an explination about how some 'Regiments' / 'battalions' have a 'Grenadier' Company, a 'Light' company and 4 or more 'Center' or 'Line' companys. (see link below)
5: You can represent your Artillery 'Limbered' by simply placing your guns in March Colunm, (in a line one behind the other) OR place a Limber complete with horses on a 40mm wide by 80mm deep base (for 15mm) or 60mm wide and say 120mm deep (for 20mm - 28mm) in place of the guns whilst they are moving around the table.
6: A few.
Scale. 40K is a Skirmish game. FOG-N is Tactical / Grand Tactical.
With most things GW, you are spoon fed all the history, background knowledge.
If you want to get the most out of a Napleonic game experiance I would recommend you do some research. What army do you want to use and why? what Special units (regiments) did it have? How was the Army organised?
For eg, How many Battalions to a Regiment, and how many Companies and of what type to the Battalion?
Check out:
http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/
It's a good start point.
Also, feel free to pop over to my BLOG:
trailape.blogspot.com/

Enjoy! Historical gaming is a much more rewarding experiance than what GW offers IMHO.

[IanB3406]

I would not suggest the quick start rules, they are not playable as shown without perusing these boards and getting some questions answered. The best way is to find someone who can help and is willing to teach. I think you will find it more rewarding than 40k, but I believe that about most historical wargames.

[Johndeterreneuve]

Yes I agree, I have almost finished the quick play scenario and it would have been somewhat of a challenge without the book. This forum though has been very helpful, and they may be just enough. I suspect if you do not second guess things too much the quick start rules may be enough. There are still a lot of typos though and I had trouble with the tables, the book clarified things.

So I would still suggest them, but you do need some help.

John

[Chasseur]

Hi,

Just a note on scales to provide some clarification:

True 1:72nd figures are very close to true 25mm scale.

The scales are all originally base on 1 inch = 6 foot (1:72nd scale).
25.4mm is an inch, but this was rounded off to just 25mm representing a 6 foot tall person.

1:87 figures (HO scale railroad) are close to 20mm scale figures.
Some figures say they are OO/HO (OO gauge railroad being 1:76 and HO being 1:87) so could be anywhere between 20 and 25mm wargaming scale.

Many manufacturers claiming to have 25mm figures are actually oversized and are really 28mm or occasionally 30mm. (Note that many fantasy ranges are 30mm or even 32mm - the so called "herioc" scale).

AB figures are closer to 18mm, which is around 1:100 (this is Flames of War scale by the way).
True 15mm figures are 1:120 scale.

Over the years, because many manufacturers wanted to put more detail on the figures, some tended to oversize the figures. Some justified this by saying the 25mm was from ankle to the eyes, or that the average height of a man in 1800 was 5 foot 4 inches and so on.

It will be much easier for everyone if we could get wargame figure and scenery manufacturers to talk actual scale (e.g. 1:72, 1:100, 1:120, etc.) rather than defining their own idea of what 15mm or 20mm or 25mm is supposed to be.

Cheers,
John Shaw

[MikeHorah]

You asked

" 3. For those who have played FOG, is the game focused more towards Strategy? (I.E. what units you bring to battle and where you place them when you deploy etc.) or is it more towards Tactics? (what formations you use where and when etc.)"

FOG(N) - like most historical games - does involve making decisions on the size and shape and deployment of your army. It is an important part of the fun for historical gamers. and they can spend lots of time away from the wargames table at home etc musing about the ideal mix , ideal army and various options avilable.

FOG(N) is less concerned than many rulesets with the formation of units - there is a more limited range of formational options than say FOG(A) for the ancient and medieval periods . Command control is very important and so is manoevre in FOG(N) . In the Napoleonic period there was a term used called "Grand tactics" especially by Napoleon himself. While there is no exact definition it bridges the gap between unit tactics which you describe and grand strategy which is more about what happens off the battle field on campaign. FOG(N) is designed for players to model a Corps d'armee of about 20- 25,000 men - in the French Imperial army often the command of one of the Marshals. FOG(N) is certainly about grand tactics - how you use the different types of troops operating together in formal divisional structures (" combined arms") that is line infantry , light infantry artillery shock cavalry and other cavalry to best advantage . That is also true of other rule sets like FOG(A) and (R) for their wider ranges of types.

As for comparisons with 40K I know next to nothing about it so cannot really comment. There are big differences beween fantasy/sci fi type gaming and historical gaming whenn it comes to the researching of armies and their organisation for army lists where the huge database of historical and archealogical records and scholarship is an important foundation for many gamers. Fantasy and sci fi may have the text of novels or of films to draw one eg Lord of the Rings or Star Wars but does not have to. And for example we know that Warhammer gamers who have started off with their fantasy styles of games do move across to their historical ones so they are not mutually exclusive.

[Majonga]

Hello everyone,

I just want to thank everyone for their quick and helpful replies. You answered all my questions as best they could be answered and helped me resolve to buy the book. Amazon delivered the book today and I must say I am not disappointed, the book itself is lovely and the few detractors I have read appear to be just very pedantic when it comes to Fonts. I am well on my way to constructing a British Core and a French Core and I hope to have my first game soon.

Thank you very much for all your help and support.

Maj

[Trailape]

You're welcome. Enjoy!