Partial Lancers +1/+2

[hazelbark]

This was a very interesting point on the CRT. A unit with partial lancers gets +1 and complete is +2.

Brings up a variety of things that I woudn't have worried about except you have rule permitting it.

The Russian Hussars actually were equipped witha front rank of lances starting in 1811 I think. Should they get partial lancer status there after?

Cossacks now I am NEVER in favor of making these powerful but should some of them get partial lances? I mean they did excel at stabbbing fleeing and frozen troops with sharp sticks.

[stecal]

Pity they fell into that old Napoleonic gamer myth about lancers. So yeah that ONE TIME in the rain lancers routed a square... If lancers were so wonderful then every army in europe would'nt have dropped them, would they ?

[hazelbark]

Pity they fell into that old Napoleonic gamer myth about lancers. So yeah that ONE TIME in the rain lancers routed a square... If lancers were so wonderful then every army in europe would'nt have dropped them, would they ?

Well I think the history is the armies after the naploeonic wars shifted much more in favor of lancers.

It was rally the 17th and 18th century that saw lancers fade. Then they start to return during and after the napoleonic wars. I do wonder why they allowed the lance bonus versus squares but not against other cavalry.

[stecal]

and by the Am Civil War it was back to pistol -pistol. These aren't lances like medieval couched lances, these are light spears for pursuing infantry or hitting a man lying down to avoid a saber swing. Note that proper heavy cav & cuirassier never bother with lances.

The rules give no other kind of weapon bonuses so why this one exception? A spear, sword, a pistol, carbine - all about equal with trained troopers. Lancers were a fad, just like every army had to have hussars in proper pellisses. In a set of rules at the regt/brigade level the individual trooper's weapons should not be a game factor.

[hazelbark]

and by the Am Civil War it was back to pistol -pistol. These aren't lances like medieval couched lances, these are light spears for pursuing infantry or hitting a man lying down to avoid a saber swing. Note that proper heavy cav & cuirassier never bother with lances.

The rules give no other kind of weapon bonuses so why this one exception? A spear, sword, a pistol, carbine - all about equal with trained troopers. Lancers were a fad, just like every army had to have hussars in proper pellisses. In a set of rules at the regt/brigade level the individual trooper's weapons should not be a game factor.

I think you have to pull the ACW aside. Yes lances were not used. I don't follow the FPW. But I think in those conflicts they had lancers. But I can point to a bunch of 19th century european armies and say they added lancers relative to their 1805 musters.

You still had a european thought that if you were going to use cavrrly as cavalry and not mobile infantry that you should consider the lance. Heck too many lancers were in the field in 1914 for pity's sake. I actually know the son of man who served with a Polish Uhlans in 1939 who fatefully tried to charge home to save his country. Somehow he survived and made it to england.

[ulysisgrunt]

And I had a teacher and mentor who charged with lance in 1914 as part of a unit of Belgian military cadets. They charged lance-armed Uhlans. His elder brother was killed in the action.
Prof DeRoover would put his chair on the desk, mount the chair and using a large pointer show us proper lance drill, including how to trail the lance behind to "strip-off" the dead body of your slain enemy.

Danny Weitz

[david53]

And I had a teacher and mentor who charged with lance in 1914 as part of a unit of Belgian military cadets. They charged lance-armed Uhlans. His elder brother was killed in the action.
Prof DeRoover would put his chair on the desk, mount the chair and using a large pointer show us proper lance drill, including how to trail the lance behind to "strip-off" the dead body of your slain enemy.

Danny Weitz

Sounds like something we should do in comps in the uk

[nickdives]

Lancers feature in European Armies for some time seeing action in Crimea and of course against the Fuzzy Wuzies. Indeed as above armies fielded them in 1914 and even 1939 as above. Whilst the armies of the Franco-Prussian War both had lancers/Uhlans Cavalry did not play a very significant part, the only major Cavalry action that springs to mind was Von Bulows Death Ride, which was formed of Cuirassiers.

In a Bde level game the Uhlans/Lancers will usually be part of a larger light cavalry formation so does the whole Bde get a bonus?

[hazelbark]

In a Bde level game the Uhlans/Lancers will usually be part of a larger light cavalry formation so does the whole Bde get a bonus?

Isn't FoG mostly regimental?

[Sarmaticus]

and by the Am Civil War it was back to pistol -pistol. These aren't lances like medieval couched lances, these are light spears for pursuing infantry or hitting a man lying down to avoid a saber swing. Note that proper heavy cav & cuirassier never bother with lances.

Hardly ever say never: mid-C19th Russian cuirassiers carried lances and by the end of the century, so did Germans. Of course, by that time the Austrians had taken lances away from their uhlans but they's also adopted thumb-in-line swords that were designed to do the job of lances.
There was a continual debate as to the pros and cons of lances as there had been and continued to be re the virtues of thrusting and slashing swords.

[Sarmaticus]

I actually know the son of man who served with a Polish Uhlans in 1939 who fatefully tried to charge home to save his country. Somehow he survived and made it to england.

I had a cousin in the Polish 18th Lancers in 1939 - though I never met him. I seem to recall reading that lances were kept in store in 1939 - pace the legend. I could be wrong.